statistical equality, is it really equal?

[shortz]

Inner city schools receive more funding from the fed because of the added challenges an inner city school faces. In many cases, this means they get more total money, but I did some research and found this isn't always the case. Apparently Detroit schools actually received more per pupil in the suburban areas than inner city Detroit.

That said, I found some good information that also stated that more money per pupil doesn't mean better educational outcomes. There was no consistent evidence that supported the idea that more money to inner city or suburban areas that resulted in better outcomes of students. So really, the answer isn't to dump more money in to inner cities, according to the data, to "set an equal playing field" for blacks.

As for why some areas spend more, that's all local and state government budgets. As far as I know, it's simply a matter of how far up or down the list they put the educational budget.

 

[shortz]

If busing is not the solution for equality in education, would you be in favor of inner city black schools receiving the same amount of funding per pupil as suburban white schools?

I skipped the first question you asked by accident. I got wrapped up in the second.

Busing created a lot of interesting twists. First and foremost, busing jacked up the cost of schooling tremendously. It was a huge under taking and eats in to the budget probably more than any other part of the system. Busing also caused private schools to become a more common alternative to the public school because many middle class whites ended up in low income schools and low income minorities ended up in middle class schools. This brings up the earlier subject of degradation in many of the "better" schools. This is what happened to one of my home town schools. It was ranked highest in educational programs in that area of the state. Over the last 40 years, because of the inner city kids, it has fallen dramatically and is becoming a dangerous and very racist school, for all of the kids that go there. I had only been there for two years, and I told my dad I wanted out and moved in with my mother to get out of the school. My brother had no choice though, and had to go, and witnessed white kids getting jumped by groups of blacks, that used their belts to beat the white kid badly enough to have to call 911 and take them to the ER. He said the black kids would talk shit the entire time at lunch, trying to instigate a fight from the white kids. The school is now ranked close to last in scores etc.

 

[shortz]

Thomas Sowell again...

"The poverty rate among black families fell from 87 percent in 1940 to 47 percent in 1960, during an era of virtually no major civil rights legislation or anti-poverty programs. It dropped another 17 percentage points during the decade of the 1960s and one percentage point during the 1970s, but this continuation of the previous trend was neither unprecedented nor something to be arbitrarily attributed to the programs like the War on Poverty."

Since then, poverty levels among blacks have basically stayed about the same, even with all of the assistance programs and help that is given.

 

[graniteman]

I have an African American friend that use to work for a place way back in the day called Computer Factory. they were a retail computer store...before all this online, direct buying came into play. His last name happened to be Cohen. One of his biggest corporate accounts was with a company owned by someone of the Jewish faith.

My friend broke sales records as a result of the Jewish company.

One day they asked if they could meet in person for lunch. The Jewish guy was surprised to find out my friend was not Jewish (Cohen is a Jewish name). Long story made shorter....the purchases stopped after they met.


so not sure if this is a race thing.....or religious or both.

^^^This why racism will never end, always has to be a connection to race or some sinister reason. Ever thought maybe they got a better deal somewhere else? Maybe they took their business in a different direction. There's big money in racism, total industries buillt around it and fortunes made from it. I highly doubt any credible business man with a brain would say ..'hey lets stop making money off this guy cause he's black''..
Funny how many other races came here penniless and faced racism and isolation but worked their way out of it. I suggest you look up Col Allen West and learn how to stop whining and blaimng others for you circumstances

 

[JR Ewing]

^^^This why racism will never end, always has to be a connection to race or some sinister reason. Ever thought maybe they got a better deal somewhere else? Maybe they took their business in a different direction. There's big money in racism, total industries buillt around it and fortunes made from it. I highly doubt any credible business man with a brain would say ..'hey lets stop making money off this guy cause he's black''..
Funny how many other races came here penniless and faced racism and isolation but worked their way out of it. I suggest you look up Col Allen West and learn how to stop whining and blaimng others for you circumstances

West seems like a very good man and is a great American.

 

[JR Ewing]

I skipped the first question you asked by accident. I got wrapped up in the second.

Busing created a lot of interesting twists. First and foremost, busing jacked up the cost of schooling tremendously. It was a huge under taking and eats in to the budget probably more than any other part of the system. Busing also caused private schools to become a more common alternative to the public school because many middle class whites ended up in low income schools and low income minorities ended up in middle class schools. This brings up the earlier subject of degradation in many of the "better" schools. This is what happened to one of my home town schools. It was ranked highest in educational programs in that area of the state. Over the last 40 years, because of the inner city kids, it has fallen dramatically and is becoming a dangerous and very racist school, for all of the kids that go there. I had only been there for two years, and I told my dad I wanted out and moved in with my mother to get out of the school. My brother had no choice though, and had to go, and witnessed white kids getting jumped by groups of blacks, that used their belts to beat the white kid badly enough to have to call 911 and take them to the ER. He said the black kids would talk shit the entire time at lunch, trying to instigate a fight from the white kids. The school is now ranked close to last in scores etc.

I have to wonder how much of this sort of thing these days can be attributed to "gangsta rap music" and the whole "hiphop culture"? I know that O'Reilly and others are placing lots of blame on the high rate of illegitimate births, lack of a father / "traditional family" among African Americans, and I can certainly see how this could have some impact. I don't really buy into the far left's notion that it's because so many young black men are still "disenfranchised" due to a continuing failure of society to "uphold their civil rights", etc.

But I think that at least some of the blame should be on the growing subculture that promotes blowing $ on gaudy stuff of little or no value or that one can't afford, being a convicted felon, being in prison at some point, committing murder and other violent crimes, blowing off legit educational and vocational opportunities to sell drugs, pimp, and be devoted to "gangsta" life. And the only "legit" ways of making a living among those who buy into this are being a rapper or other "entertainer" or athlete. I can't help but wonder just how big of an impact this hardcore gangsta / hiphop subculture is having on so many?

 

[Cosmokramer]

Can someone please give me the long short of this thread?

 

[HGH]

It's a scenario.

I think it's funny that you accuse the person who thinks the application process should be blind to color of being racist.

Make the test harder. There could be a situation where in a given year the top applicants to a given school don't have a member of a race or gender.


If the top group of students are getting perfect scores on a test all that means is that the standard for perfection is too low. A test should be difficult enough that no one gets a perfect score. And if someone does the following year you make it more difficult.

Your solution to not being able to distinguish the top of the crop. Segregate the races and pick so many from each race.

My solution. Challenge the students more to determine the true top applicants.

So the person who thinks the best should get in regardless of race is a racist and the person who thinks you should select based on a racial bias isn't?

By the way my view is the same if you flip it. If the top 200 did not include a Caucasian I'm perfectly fine with that.

Because I don't want things handed to people that don't deserve it. White black yellow orange or other.

You want to see a racist? Grab a mirror.

Sorry buddy, your main fallacy is that you think that it is possible to definitively rank every college applicant from #1 to #500,000 in order in a totally unbiased, unemotional way. That's just stupid. It cannot happen. The cream of the crop are all essentially equal, no matter how "hard" you make the test. And the person entrusted with making the test "harder" is only adding questions that they personally feel have more "value".

Do you believe that there are ways of grading an essay that are 100% objective? That's patently absurd. 20 different people can grade the same group of essays and dole out completely different scores, based on which essays resonate with them.

Fact: emotional criteria WILL be used to determine the quality of applicants. There is no scenario that can be created that can prevent this. Especially for entrance into programs that are arts-based like creative writing, fine art, violin performance, etc etc.

Your total lack of understanding of the admissions process renders your opinion 100% moot. If it was as simple as "who can jump the highest" we could film everyone jumping in front of a yard stick and rank everyone, definitively, from first to last. But it's more complicated than that.

 

[69nites]

Sorry buddy, your main fallacy is that you think that it is possible to definitively rank every college applicant from #1 to #500,000 in order in a totally unbiased, unemotional way. That's just stupid. It cannot happen. The cream of the crop are all essentially equal, no matter how "hard" you make the test. And the person entrusted with making the test "harder" is only adding questions that they personally feel have more "value".

Do you believe that there are ways of grading an essay that are 100% objective? That's patently absurd. 20 different people can grade the same group of essays and dole out completely different scores, based on which essays resonate with them.

Fact: emotional criteria WILL be used to determine the quality of applicants. There is no scenario that can be created that can prevent this. Especially for entrance into programs that are arts-based like creative writing, fine art, violin performance, etc etc.

Your total lack of understanding of the admissions process renders your opinion 100% moot. If it was as simple as "who can jump the highest" we could film everyone jumping in front of a yard stick and rank everyone, definitively, from first to last. But it's more complicated than that.

If you think that you can set two people side by side and not determine who is a more qualified person without accounting their race you're insane.

 

[IronCore]

I say we put AA in professional sports... especially the NBA... because quite honestly the NBA is racially biased... but that's ok right???

 

[JR Ewing]

I say we put AA in professional sports... especially the NBA... because quite honestly the NBA is racially biased... but that's ok right???

Professional sports are a perfect example of what things in general should be based upon - performance. The best at something get paid to do it in accordance with what the market dictates (generally speaking), and those who cannot perform at that level don't make it. Those who do better at that elite level earn more than those who just survive at that level.

Of course athletes are limited by what their bodies can actually do and for how long, which is a relatively short time frame. This is also true to a lesser extent in physically demanding blue collar occupations and also in white collar occupations that are very stressful or require long hours.

 

[2ez]

^^^This why racism will never end, always has to be a connection to race or some sinister reason. Ever thought maybe they got a better deal somewhere else? Maybe they took their business in a different direction. There's big money in racism, total industries buillt around it and fortunes made from it. I highly doubt any credible business man with a brain would say ..'hey lets stop making money off this guy cause he's black''..
Funny how many other races came here penniless and faced racism and isolation but worked their way out of it. I suggest you look up Col Allen West and learn how to stop whining and blaimng others for you circumstances

yea your probably right.


and women should stop complaining too. the so called Handicaps/disabled as well. they too need to work their way out of whatever they believe hinders them.

here my friend has a disability, yet he is able to get cheaper bus tickets to commute to work. its not fair...he should pay the same as the rest of us. the dayum leech.