statistical equality, is it really equal?

[69nites]

There was talk of systematic oppression of minorities, specifically black minorities, in the United States. I have a little bit different view on this and would like to discuss this.

Forewarning. Bigots not welcome in this thread. This is about the political and social environment that continues to breed racism.

First and foremost for me is the idea of statistical equality and how it differs from actual equal opportunity. Affirmative action has IMO done nothing but hurt the black community and America as a whole. Why would this hurt the black community? Because it causes black people to get things which they don't deserve. Whether it be a job or a place in a good school. There is a quota that must be met. There are times that a company must employ a person who is less qualified because of the color of their skin. By definition this is racist and prejudicial.

I'm not bitching about this as a white man. This is a tit for tat world. When old white money sees people getting what they didn't earn they assume all blacks are cashing in on this. Now the hard working black man has to work twice as hard to prove you deserve the job after you get it.

These crutches the government gives the poor suffering black man only hurt him. Any government regulation granting one race something will only help build a race wall.

 

[Stumpy]

Saw a similar thing in UK many years ago at a company I worked at. A black guy was given a position he clearly didn't deserve and clearly couldn't do well. When he was previously turned down for the job he screamed racism as there were no other black people in the company, this was largely down to the fact that there just didn't seem to be many black people in the industry at all and in that area there were very few black people. All this did was create racial tension. All this does in turn is make it harder for a black person to enter the industry or said company as the person that used the racial card made it damned hard for the next one to be taken seriously which as you rightly said 69, the next black person needs to work twice as hard just to be accepted as equal.

 

[shortz]

Read up on Thomas Sowell and what he's been saying since the 70s through 2013. The man is a genius and should replace the current "black leaders", as they call themselves, such as Al Sharpton and Jackson. He's a black conservative, who supports affirmative action, but admits that it has many downfalls and that it needs fixing. I love this question and answer

"Do you feel that blacks are catching up to whites?"
"Well, no, because whites aren't standing still"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU4QyOHb9B0

"Racism is happening where race is not an issue..."
This is really interesting, because it wasn't until recent years that the public really started to see that racism can happen in many forms. Many think Thomas isn't a "real black" because he's educated, well spoken, and doesn't conform to the typical liberal black view.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpk8bL3WNFg

Check out his views on socialism/marxism. He was basically an "Obama type" when he was in college, then took a job in government and his views changed. He mentions "the anointed ones" here too. I think we all know a few of these people, one is on this very forum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzT21b-BMQk

 

[1bigun11]

One of the problems is that it is easy to mislabel something as being a white vs. black problem for something that might be more properly labeled as a rich vs. poor problem. No one seriously disputes that rich people pass on to their children tremendous economic advantages, which their children in turn pass on to their children, and so forth. And no one seriously disputes that it is difficult to accumulate much wealth for yourself while you and your family are enslaved. Thus, not much wealth to pass on to your children, and so on. Thus, disadvantaged in each generation.

It is difficult to claim that all people are equal in the face of such inequality of opportunity. But note that this inequality has nothing to do with skin color. Many whites are equally disadvantaged in this way and have virtually nothing to pass on to their children to give them a head start in the race of "free competition."

The problem is that as long as the debate focuses on "color" it keeps poor working class white folks from realizing just how disadvantaged they are in the competition.

And I agree that affirmative action is not the solution to this problem. I dont know what is.

 

[69nites]

One of the problems is that it is easy to mislabel something as being a white vs. black problem for something that might be more properly labeled as a rich vs. poor problem. No one seriously disputes that rich people pass on to their children tremendous economic advantages, which their children in turn pass on to their children, and so forth. And no one seriously disputes that it is difficult to accumulate much wealth for yourself while you and your family are enslaved. Thus, not much wealth to pass on to your children, and so on. Thus, disadvantaged in each generation.

It is difficult to claim that all people are equal in the face of such inequality of opportunity. But note that this inequality has nothing to do with skin color. Many whites are equally disadvantaged in this way and have virtually nothing to pass on to their children to give them a head start in the race of "free competition."

The problem is that as long as the debate focuses on "color" it keeps poor working class white folks from realizing just how disadvantaged they are in the competition.

And I agree that affirmative action is not the solution to this problem. I dont know what is.

The solution is to do nothing. Micks, WOPs, Jews, Greeks, Chinese have all overcome adversity and they have done it without being pussies about it.

Develop a reputation as a hard working people and you're equal. Cry to mommy and daddy every time you feel someone was picking on you isn't going to help. It's only going to hurt.

Wronging one race to appease another only fuels the fire.

I came up poor homeless and in housing projects and I made something of myself. No assistance for the white and poor. I don't whine about it. I earned what I have. That's more than the old money pussies can say.

 

[1bigun11]

The solution is to do nothing. Micks, WOPs, Jews, Greeks, Chinese have all overcome adversity and they have done it without being pussies about it.

Develop a reputation as a hard working people and you're equal. Cry to mommy and daddy every time you feel someone was picking on you isn't going to help. It's only going to hurt.

Wronging one race to appease another only fuels the fire.

I came up poor homeless and in housing projects and I made something of myself. No assistance for the white and poor. I don't whine about it. I earned what I have. That's more than the old money pussies can say.

That is actually much more than the old money pussies can say (although they convince themselves otherwise).

But while we are on the subject of government handouts let us remember that some of the richest and greediest people in this country are also some of the biggest contributors to political candidates. The reason is because it is worth it. Big money donors get Hugely big government contracts--paid for with your working class tax dollars.

And you will never hear a rich person complaining about a rich/poor government transfer of funds when it works in his favor, lol

 

[shortz]

That is actually much more than the old money pussies can say (although they convince themselves otherwise).

But while we are on the subject of government handouts let us remember that some of the richest and greediest people in this country are also some of the biggest contributors to political candidates. The reason is because it is worth it. Big money donors get Hugely big government contracts--paid for with your working class tax dollars.

And you will never hear a rich person complaining about a rich/poor government transfer of funds when it works in his favor, lol

My only concern about generalizations like "The 1%ers" or "the rich" is that in order to be in the 1%, you only need to make about $430,000. I say "only" because people seem to think that the entire 1% are mega rich and control everything. The fact is, the mega rich only make up a fraction of the 1%.

 

[1bigun11]

^^^good point.

 

[JR Ewing]

The solution is to do nothing. Micks, WOPs, Jews, Greeks, Chinese have all overcome adversity and they have done it without being pussies about it.

Develop a reputation as a hard working people and you're equal. Cry to mommy and daddy every time you feel someone was picking on you isn't going to help. It's only going to hurt.

Wronging one race to appease another only fuels the fire.

I came up poor homeless and in housing projects and I made something of myself. No assistance for the white and poor. I don't whine about it. I earned what I have. That's more than the old money pussies can say.

Agreed. Some of the most successful people I know here in my hometown in the Deep South are Indians, Arabs, Chinese, Japanese, etc who were often born overseas. They just all seem to work very hard and have good old fashioned horse sense. Not everybody who earns, saves, and invests was born into money or comes from "old money". My family and the families most of the others I know here have only been in this country for a few generations, many having come over more or less penniless 150 or so years ago (or less). Some are smart enough to work hard, save, invest, come to own various things that produce revenue, etc. I'm the first person on either side of my family to have even graduated college and work as a white collar professional.

 

[JR Ewing]

My only concern about generalizations like "The 1%ers" or "the rich" is that in order to be in the 1%, you only need to make about $430,000. I say "only" because people seem to think that the entire 1% are mega rich and control everything. The fact is, the mega rich only make up a fraction of the 1%.

Yep. And what REALLY matters in life is net worth, NOT so much income.

 

[69nites]

Yep. And what REALLY matters in life is net worth, NOT so much income.

To me income is what matters. If you squander your riches that's on you. Doesn't change having them.

 

[JR Ewing]

To me income is what matters. If you squander your riches that's on you. Doesn't change having them.

I suppose it's a matter of personal priorities. Net worth (equity) is actual wealth. Saving and especially investing wisely in appreciating assets with as much income as one can afford to do so is smarter than spending much or virtually all income on things that have little or no value or depreciate in value.

Some earn hundreds of thousands a year or more and spend every penny and then some, and have little or no net worth. Others may earn less each year (or else put back most of their income into their business if self-employed), live frugally, and invest wisely and come to have a large net worth.

If you've averaged $250k a year for 35 years, lived frugally, and invested wisely, by the time you're getting close to 60 and are able start taking advantage of those "tax advantaged" investments without penalty, you're now a very wealthy multimillionaire who no longer needs to go out and earn a penny. You are truly wealthy and can tell anyone and everyone where to go.

If you've averaged $500k a year for 35 years and pissed it all away on depreciating assets and a whole lot of nothing, you have nothing for retirement, and will likely have to continue to work all your life (or as long as you are able). You're likely literally a paycheck away from having nothing and perhaps not even being able to provide the basic necessities for yourself. You have no wealth other than whatever the value of any equity of whatever assets you may have. People in this position usually keep everything that IS an asset mortgaged, and are often only worth whatever their last paycheck is. And when they do have to borrow, they generally must do so at a higher rate, and often not at the bank.