Goodbye Obamacare

[DaSarge]

The socialists who created Obamacare chose to reimburse non-profit healthcare plans only 12.6% of the funds they needed to provide the REQUIRED Obamacare services. Thus, the socialists purposefully didn't (and don't) want health care to be non-profit. They wrote the law to fail. The socialists want the government to completely control your health care in the form of a single payer system. The socialists want the government to completely control your life. F*ck off socialists...

 

[rawdeal]

I know it's now against the Law to say niggers, but I'm pretty sure it's still ok to say niggahs cause it sounds kinda hip. What the fuck evah, they're just LABELS, like jews and libtards and facists and lezzies and meatheads . . . . . and socialists. What separates us from the apes is ideas, not labels.

 

[JR Ewing]

I do not want to live in a country where there is no profit motive (performance incentive) in healthcare. I want the freedom to seek out the doc who was top of his class, and who earns a mil a year because he's so good at what he does. I don't want to be cut on by some clown who barely graduated med school and had to go to work for the government for a $90k a year gig that he can't be fired from or sued for malpractice.

Insurance companies are in business to make a profit - they have fiduciary responsibilities to their shareholders (public or private) to maximize profits. Take away the ability for them to profit, they will get out of the business and no one else will replace them - it will become govt-run. Of course obamacare allowed the govt to step in and bribe the insurance companies via taxpayer-funded subsidies if they started insuring un-insurables. And of course this also made everyone else's premiums go up dramatically.

I served 4 years in the military many years ago, and I had "free" healthcare there. It was not uncommon to get sick when you were living among a bunch of people in very cramped quarters and in very spartan-like conditions, traveling to all sorts of 3rd world hellholes, being vaccinated with all sorts of strange microbes, etc.

I once got very sick while in the military, and it practically took an act of congress (much time and effort on my part) to see an actual doctor on base. While deployed, there were only minimally trained "corpsmen" available who were basically good for little more than changing bedpans and perhaps handing out a few pills after much convincing that one was very sick.

And I found the doctors on base to have apparently been bottom-of-the-class types who didn't seem particularly competent or concerned. Of course when you can't be fired or sued for malpractice, and you're being paid 10% of what the guys and gals at the top of your class are now making in private practice, I guess it is to be expected - see the VA.

I've listened to many immigrants originally from other countries talk about how the US will be making a big mistake if we go to the same govt controlled system those immigrants were under in their native countries.

The system here that already exists that provides healthcare for the poor and the un-insurable can certainly be improved. But not by taking all of the rest of us who can afford insurance and who are insurable and dumping us into that same system - it will only make it worse for everyone - except for the elitist politicians and their billionaire benefactors who will be exempted.

I saw Buffett, Gates, and Munger on tv this morning saying that the US needs single payer - they all know good and well that they and those like them will be exempt, and will continue to have private, immediate access to the best healthcare they can buy - while most of the rest of us will become farm animals.

Countries not ruled by a dictator that provide "free" healthcare such as Denmark, France, Italy, Austria, Belgium, Finland, and Sweden all tax their population at levels well over 40% of GDP (almost 50% in some cases), while the average among developed countries is 34%... The US is near the bottom at 26%.

We already spend over 70% of our federal budget on non-defense - mainly existing and future entitlements and servicing our debt. Those other countries (who rely heavily upon us for their own national defense) spend ~ 1-2% or less of their GDP on national defense, while we're more like 16-17% total. Of course we could follow their lead on defense spending, and I'm sure we'd all soon be speaking mostly Russian.

 

[DaSarge]

Convicts get free education and healthcare (including mental health, dental, and prescriptions). Ask them how that's working out......

 

[HGH]

our problem with healthcare is this:

Americans believe that even if we're 80 years old, if we get cancer then our insurance should spend four million dollars on a procedure that will extend our life by 3 months.

People Like you are why idiots are scared of "death panels"

I have no problem with telling someone who has lived WELL beyond life expectancy that we cannot spend millions on a procedure that extends their life for a VERY short period of time. A cure is one thing. Minor life extension is another. If they want that they can take out a loan.

Americans believe that we should get a free mammogram at age 30.

preventative medicine and testing is proven to keep healthcare cost low. so... bad argument.

Wrong. The odds of getting breast cancer at that age are hovering around zero. "SAFETY AT ALL COSTS EVEN TO PREVENT NEAR-ZERO RISK" is why everyone hates our nanny state government. You do not spend billions on something that isn't a real risk. If you think you may be one of the 0.0000001% of women who get breast cancer in their 20s feel free to pay for it yourself.

People like you are why the height of railings have raised a foot during my career even though people are largely not falling over them. But now you can't see over your porch in Los Angeles because the 42" railing is at all adult males' seated eyeline.

Americans believe that if they give birth to a brain-dead paraplegic that health insurance should pay to keep them as a living vegetable for the longest length of time possible.

Dr.HGH-mengele says gas those burdens on society!

I say pay for that moaning sack of meat yourself. My willing contribution is 0 dollars and 0 cents.

Americans believe that they should get to smoke 3 packs a day for 30 years and then insurance should pay for their lung cancer.

This is blatantly not the general belief in this country. Just look at the direction f smoking laws and practices.
This is:

Like the pussies we are we blame tobacco companies instead of the people who know fully the risk they're taking when they light up.

Americans believe they should be able to knowingly have sex with a person who is HIV positive, and that if they contract HIV their insurance should pay for their $4,000/month treatment for life. (this is a real argument i had with a person i know).

Who The F$%# is doing this? No One. No One is willingly contacting AIDS More :

Wrong. Even the Logo channel (the gay channel) shows ads that essentially call you a bigot for discriminating on a sexual partner based on their HIV positive status. Because TECHNICALLY if someone is regularly taking their anti-viral drugs the chances of passing on the virus are minimal.

without taking into account the fact that anyone who is diligent enough to faithfully take their twice-daily medication is also someone careful enough to not get AIDS in the first place.

it's infuriating to me and it's why i'm not promiscuous. i have MULTIPLE gay friends who knowingly sleep with HIV-infected partners.





There are ways for healthcare to be more reasonably priced for everyone. It could even be socialized if we limit what it covers to shit that is within reason.
This is the more reasonable statement and inference in you post. I think perhaps I'd prefer someone slightly more compassionate making the plan, but yes single payer / socialized health care can be done sustainably and efficiently as it is done in MANY MANY other countries.

 

[FlyingDragon]

So your smarter than Buffett, Gates, and Munger? I dont think so....Nice try....

Insurance companies can continue to operate and make profits, just not in healthcare.....

I do not want to live in a country where there is no profit motive (performance incentive) in healthcare. I want the freedom to seek out the doc who was top of his class, and who earns a mil a year because he's so good at what he does. I don't want to be cut on by some clown who barely graduated med school and had to go to work for the government for a $90k a year gig that he can't be fired from or sued for malpractice.

Insurance companies are in business to make a profit - they have fiduciary responsibilities to their shareholders (public or private) to maximize profits. Take away the ability for them to profit, they will get out of the business and no one else will replace them - it will become govt-run. Of course obamacare allowed the govt to step in and bribe the insurance companies via taxpayer-funded subsidies if they started insuring un-insurables. And of course this also made everyone else's premiums go up dramatically.

I served 4 years in the military many years ago, and I had "free" healthcare there. It was not uncommon to get sick when you were living among a bunch of people in very cramped quarters and in very spartan-like conditions, traveling to all sorts of 3rd world hellholes, being vaccinated with all sorts of strange microbes, etc.

I once got very sick while in the military, and it practically took an act of congress (much time and effort on my part) to see an actual doctor on base. While deployed, there were only minimally trained "corpsmen" available who were basically good for little more than changing bedpans and perhaps handing out a few pills after much convincing that one was very sick.

And I found the doctors on base to have apparently been bottom-of-the-class types who didn't seem particularly competent or concerned. Of course when you can't be fired or sued for malpractice, and you're being paid 10% of what the guys and gals at the top of your class are now making in private practice, I guess it is to be expected - see the VA.

I've listened to many immigrants originally from other countries talk about how the US will be making a big mistake if we go to the same govt controlled system those immigrants were under in their native countries.

The system here that already exists that provides healthcare for the poor and the un-insurable can certainly be improved. But not by taking all of the rest of us who can afford insurance and who are insurable and dumping us into that same system - it will only make it worse for everyone - except for the elitist politicians and their billionaire benefactors who will be exempted.

I saw Buffett, Gates, and Munger on tv this morning saying that the US needs single payer - they all know good and well that they and those like them will be exempt, and will continue to have private, immediate access to the best healthcare they can buy - while most of the rest of us will become farm animals.

Countries not ruled by a dictator that provide "free" healthcare such as Denmark, France, Italy, Austria, Belgium, Finland, and Sweden all tax their population at levels well over 40% of GDP (almost 50% in some cases), while the average among developed countries is 34%... The US is near the bottom at 26%.

We already spend over 70% of our federal budget on non-defense - mainly existing and future entitlements and servicing our debt. Those other countries (who rely heavily upon us for their own national defense) spend ~ 1-2% or less of their GDP on national defense, while we're more like 16-17% total. Of course we could follow their lead on defense spending, and I'm sure we'd all soon be speaking mostly Russian.

 

[JR Ewing]

So your smarter than Buffett, Gates, and Munger? I dont think so....Nice try....

Insurance companies can continue to operate and make profits, just not in healthcare.....

Re-read my post. Where did I say I was SMARTER than Buffett, Gates, and Munger? You know better... I've said I'm NOT as smart as those guys on this board more than once.

What I said is that they are hypocrites. They and the rest of the top .0001% will be able to opt out or otherwise be exempted because of their wealth and political connections.

I think it could also be argued that they are out of touch with the average person. Of course it could even be argued that I am somewhat out of touch with many people (poor, lower middle class, etc) as well. Perhaps you as well.

If a company cannot make a profit in a certain industry or sector or region or whatever, they will pull out. Fiduciary responsibility, etc.

 

[FlyingDragon]

That is my point, Insurance companies are no longer needed in the health insurance sector....They have cried for years how they cant make a profit with Obama Care. The government simply buys out the industry....

 

[JR Ewing]

In a perfect world, we would not need insurance companies. But I have never had a problem with the way things always were all of my adult life - at least until my premiums and deductibles started shooting up under the ACA.

I always liked the old system - I either got insurance through a job or have bought it on my own. I paid my premiums that were based upon my own individual profile and flashed my insurance card when I went to the doctor for whatever reason. Never have had to wait very long to see a doc or get any treatment. Have always been able to go right over to the pharmacy with any prescriptions, flash my card, and get whatever meds I needed within 1-2 hours or so at the most.

Let those who are un-insurable or unable to afford insurance continue to be "helped" by govt - work on the much needed improvements to that system. Leave the rest of us the hell alone - if it wasn't broke, no one had any business trying to "fix" it.

If I ever have to put my life and health into the hands of some un-elected DC govt bureaucrat, I'll take my assets, skills, etc and move elsewhere.

The reason insurance companies have had a hard time profiting under the ACA is because they were forced to insure the un-insurable.

The government doesn't do anything "simply", unfortunately. Of course who among us who are business owners and / or investors in other businesses wouldn't like to see our companies be bought out for FAR more than our businesses are worth by a govt that loves to spend too much - too much of our tax dollars, unfortunately.

Why stop with insurance companies? Why shouldn't the government buy out ALL US private industry, or as much as they can? They know better than we do, and can take care of everything for us, right? Maybe I also need DC hacks for what used to be taken care of by my auto, life, longterm care, and homeowners insurance companies.

Why not do away with private investment advisory and brokerage services? Much of the left knows better than me that US treasury bonds are the only investment anyone needs - no matter how many years from retirement one is, no matter their own individual risk tolerance, etc.

Since diet is a very important part of one's health, should the govt also buy up the fast food and grocery industries? Should our diets be controlled, rationed, and otherwise micromanaged the way Mrs Obama did with school kids for years?

Why not the retail industries? So many of them are getting crushed by Amazon that many of them are going bankrupt. Oil and gas? Housing? Auto again? Where should it end? Is there anything we should be allowed to do for ourselves?

With 20 trillion in debt, hundreds of trillions in unfunded liabilities, a debt to GDP over 100%, sluggish economic growth, etc, I'm afraid the govt is not in any position to keep borrowing and spending like a piss-poor 3rd world Latin American nation.

 

[FlyingDragon]

I will agree with much of what u have pointed out, but I was only suggesting the health insurance industry. As we age our premiums will go up, you are smart enough to understand that. What you paid as a premium at age 25 is not going to be the same at 45.....

In a perfect world, we would not need insurance companies. But I have never had a problem with the way things always were all of my adult life - at least until my premiums and deductibles started shooting up under the ACA.

I always liked the old system - I either got insurance through a job or have bought it on my own. I paid my premiums that were based upon my own individual profile and flashed my insurance card when I went to the doctor for whatever reason. Never have had to wait very long to see a doc or get any treatment. Have always been able to go right over to the pharmacy with any prescriptions, flash my card, and get whatever meds I needed within 1-2 hours or so at the most.

Let those who are un-insurable or unable to afford insurance continue to be "helped" by govt - work on the much needed improvements to that system. Leave the rest of us the hell alone - if it wasn't broke, no one had any business trying to "fix" it.

If I ever have to put my life and health into the hands of some un-elected DC govt bureaucrat, I'll take my assets, skills, etc and move elsewhere.

The reason insurance companies have had a hard time profiting under the ACA is because they were forced to insure the un-insurable.

The government doesn't do anything "simply", unfortunately. Of course who among us who are business owners and / or investors in other businesses wouldn't like to see our companies be bought out for FAR more than our businesses are worth by a govt that loves to spend too much - too much of our tax dollars, unfortunately.

Why stop with insurance companies? Why shouldn't the government buy out ALL US private industry, or as much as they can? They know better than we do, and can take care of everything for us, right? Maybe I also need DC hacks for what used to be taken care of by my auto, life, longterm care, and homeowners insurance companies.

Why not do away with private investment advisory and brokerage services? Much of the left knows better than me that US treasury bonds are the only investment anyone needs - no matter how many years from retirement one is, no matter their own individual risk tolerance, etc.

Since diet is a very important part of one's health, should the govt also buy up the fast food and grocery industries? Should our diets be controlled, rationed, and otherwise micromanaged the way Mrs Obama did with school kids for years?

Why not the retail industries? So many of them are getting crushed by Amazon that many of them are going bankrupt. Oil and gas? Housing? Auto again? Where should it end? Is there anything we should be allowed to do for ourselves?

With 20 trillion in debt, hundreds of trillions in unfunded liabilities, a debt to GDP over 100%, sluggish economic growth, etc, I'm afraid the govt is not in any position to keep borrowing and spending like a piss-poor 3rd world Latin American nation.

 

[JackD]

My Premiums doubled, went form $220 a month December 2016 t0 $400 a month January 2017, plus a $7500 a year deductible. And those costs went up to where I chose to NOT have insurance, because I couldn't afford it and the $1000 penalty was cheaper.

 

[HGH]

My Premiums doubled, went form $220 a month December 2016 t0 $400 a month January 2017, plus a $7500 a year deductible. And those costs went up to where I chose to NOT have insurance, because I couldn't afford it and the $1000 penalty was cheaper.

what's interesting is that if you're a healthy young male you're kind of fine without insurance. you only need it if you get cancer or some shit. when i got hit by a truck they did $250,000 worth of surgery before they found out i had health insurance. so i would still be alive even if i hadn't had it.

may have had to file bankruptcy tho...