Dilemma. Low endocrine impact cycle?

[Joliver]

I disagree with the hypocrisy argument on matters of pragmatism. I can gear up and gain muscle and a year prior to my meet, but then I have to maintain that muscle. But muscle isn't really what is being discussed in the 181's. At that weight, it is all about the CNS. Anything taken this far in advance will do so little to help him on lifting day. My pre-meet prep is hundreds of mgs of TNE, Tren, Test-P, Halo, and 500mcgs of Mibolerone. I hope to gain no muscle from those "anabolics" because it is all about the androgen's effect on the CNS. That is the edge.

Admittedly, it is a gray area, but the drug testing is not looking for ethics or morals. It is testing for an advantage on the day of the meet.

But at the end of the day, you didn't ask for my opinion on moral grounds, so this is what I think: the answer that I would give would be clomid, and a SARM.

Take a look at the pharmacodynamics of SARMS and their effects of FSH and LH.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2040238/

 

[GiantSlayer]

Angry. If you truly can be one of the best without touching anything banned, then go be one of the best! How much better will you feel about yourself knowing that your accomplishments are your own, not some drug's. Then once you have made your mark, then you turn on the juice and blow everyone away.

On the other hand, if you don't think you are naturally one of the best... If you will only be successful by enhancing, then maybe you do need to start thinking about it. So many athletes I can think of that got busted enhancing that we would probably never knew existed if they didn't cheat in the first place.

So the real question is, my friend. Do you believe in yourself?

 

[Dr_jitsu]

You state it is immoral but then give advice on clomid which is WADA prohibited under S4.

Yes, but he will not be competing while running Clomid. I recommended that he forgo competing for 2 years. The Clomid is a way for him to make some good gains and enable him to wait 2 more years to run a cycle. I picked 2 years, because I know that 4 years (wherein he would be 25 and his endo system mature) won't be heeded. 23 is a compromise. The Clomid would buy time w/ out compromising his HPTA.

SAD and I may not play well together, but I am 100% supportive of his attempt to get this young man to wait. Kid obviously has a boatload of ability and drive. I just do not want to see him f himself

 

[SAD]

Wow. Just wow. I'll respond to this tomorrow. I'm going to sleep on it so I don't rage on you for recommending that Angry take off two years from competing and work on his physique. Holy shit....

 

[Dr_jitsu]

Reading comp, my friend. I said he should continue progressing on his main lifts. He could do bit of body building as well. The idea here is to delay his use of steroids.

I guarantee you that he is going to cycle, and soon, if he competes. I have been to my share o PL meets. PLers are a friendly and open lot (unlike competitive body builders). If he does not do a drug tested show, and he talks to the guys w/ 1800 lb totals they will whet his appetite for gear. The running joke at PL was that PLers don't use a syringe, they use Turkey Basters. You know that this situation will increase his lust for gear (or should know this). You say that this kid is a friend, and as such you should protect him from foolish decisions. If you are unwilling to do the right things, at least make sure he has all the accessory drugs he needs. AI, HCG, SERMs' etc.

And save the rage, or channel it into something more productive. Don't think you are a bad ass because you lift. You are not.

 

[Diesel0022]

Anything strong enough to produce significant gains will be suppressive. However, one option is to run Clomid. I have seen young men gain up to 10 lbs from Clomid. Also, a couple of Clomid cycles will get him closer to the age when he can run a normal cycle without risking damage to his endocrine system.

This is a physiological impossibility.

Reading comp, my friend. I said he should continue progressing on his main lifts. He could do bit of body building as well. The idea here is to delay his use of steroids.

I guarantee you that he is going to cycle, and soon, if he competes. I have been to my share o PL meets. PLers are a friendly and open lot (unlike competitive body builders). If he does not do a drug tested show, and he talks to the guys w/ 1800 lb totals they will whet his appetite for gear. The running joke at PL was that PLers don't use a syringe, they use Turkey Basters. You know that this situation will increase his lust for gear (or should know this). You say that this kid is a friend, and as such you should protect him from foolish decisions. If you are unwilling to do the right things, at least make sure he has all the accessory drugs he needs. AI, HCG, SERMs' etc.

And save the rage, or channel it into something more productive. Don't think you are a bad ass because you lift. You are not.

You come off a bit condescending, no need for that brotha

 

[macgyver]

I have to point out one thing that seems to be poor understanding. While guys say that after you are 'off', and able to pass a piss test, you have lost the advantages that you got from AAS in the first place. This is really silly.... If that were the case, we would have to be 'on' 24/7 to maintain anything.

While it is true you will lose some of strength increases due to inter muscular fluid retention etc, you do NOT lose the gains you make when you come off. A few studies show that even in the state of extreme atrophy (stopping training all together), you still retain the additional myonuclei you gained as a result of training adaptation. This is why coming back off a layoff recover strength and mass to pre-layoff levels so quickly. (most people call it "muscle memory")

What ever you call it, it is real. So the additional cell growth you get from anabolics stays with you....regardless of your time off. You retain the additional new cells created, even in total disuse. You may not stay the same size if you dont train, but the underlying muscular structure at a cellular level is still there.

I am not saying you can be as strong as you are at your peak on anabolics as strength has more to do then just cellular structure. But, to think there is no advantage in this is not being honest.

 

[SAD]

Reading comp, my friend. I said he should continue progressing on his main lifts. He could do bit of body building as well. The idea here is to delay his use of steroids.

I guarantee you that he is going to cycle, and soon, if he competes. I have been to my share o PL meets. PLers are a friendly and open lot (unlike competitive body builders). If he does not do a drug tested show, and he talks to the guys w/ 1800 lb totals they will whet his appetite for gear. The running joke at PL was that PLers don't use a syringe, they use Turkey Basters. You know that this situation will increase his lust for gear (or should know this). You say that this kid is a friend, and as such you should protect him from foolish decisions. If you are unwilling to do the right things, at least make sure he has all the accessory drugs he needs. AI, HCG, SERMs' etc.

And save the rage, or channel it into something more productive. Don't think you are a bad ass because you lift. You are not.

My reading comprehension is on point Mr Jitsu, thank you. Telling a guy that will win nationals next year, if he stays on track, to take a couple years off from competing and do bodybuilding is absurd. While he is zealous as all get-out, he has incredible discipline and self control. I can't get into why I know that he has 10x more than your average 21 year old (and all ages for that matter), but he DOES. So if he gets good advice here, that backs up my advice to him to stay away from actual cycling, then he will heed the advice and do things right. To assume that if he continues to compete he will use too soon, and to guarantee it, is ignorant.

Don't question my willingness to help him in all the right ways. "If you are unwilling to do the right things", haha. Get the fvck out of here. I have nothing but his best interests in mind, and he knows that and anybody who is following this know that. My advice to him from the beginning has been to stay away from AAS and rely on his freakish progress naturally until he's older. He knows this. This thread is specifically to highlight the fact that he can't have it both ways.

Please refrain from adding any more of your ignorant advice. We've got this.

 

[Dr_jitsu]

OK, but look: We are all on the same page in that want to help this kid. I agree, he is a freak, those kind of lifts for someone @181 are world clas, especially since he is natural. But lke I said, competing will increase his desire to do steroids. He has 15 years of prime lifting ahead of him, and he probably has the ability to be one of the best in the world. What is the hurry? At 21, the probability of damaging his endocrine system is very real. 23 diminishes that probability dramatically.

SAD, why don't you and the prodigy come to some type of agreement: Get him to swear to stay natural for 2 more years. Then agree to get him what he needs, and give him the guidance to do things right. If he wants to compete with he big dogs, then so be it. Just hold him to his promise.

 

[Dr_jitsu]

My reading comprehension is on point Mr Jitsu, thank you. Telling a guy that will win nationals next year, if he stays on track, to take a couple years off from competing and do bodybuilding is absurd. While he is zealous as all get-out, he has incredible discipline and self control. I can't get into why I know that he has 10x more than your average 21 year old (and all ages for that matter), but he DOES. So if he gets good advice here, that backs up my advice to him to stay away from actual cycling, then he will heed the advice and do things right. To assume that if he continues to compete he will use too soon, and to guarantee it, is ignorant.

Don't question my willingness to help him in all the right ways. "If you are unwilling to do the right things", haha. Get the fvck out of here. I have nothing but his best interests in mind, and he knows that and anybody who is following this know that. My advice to him from the beginning has been to stay away from AAS and rely on his freakish progress naturally until he's older. He knows this. This thread is specifically to highlight the fact that he can't have it both ways.

Please refrain from adding any more of your ignorant advice. We've got this.

Then why is title of the thread "Low endocrine impact cycle?"

You were specifically asking for a steroid cycle, and now say you want him not to cycle. Which is it? I recommend NOT cycling. My logic is consistent, yours flip flops back and forth.

This talented young man needs a better mentor, because you are all over the place. Honestly, I would prefer not to have any interaction with you at all, but you seem determined to **** this kid. If you are determined to put kids on cycles, then I am staying as far away from you as possible.

 

[CBS]

OK, but look: We are all on the same page in that want to help this kid. I agree, he is a freak, those kind of lifts for someone @181 are world clas, especially since he is natural. But lke I said, competing will increase his desire to do steroids. He has 15 years of prime lifting ahead of him, and he probably has the ability to be one of the best in the world. What is the hurry? At 21, the probability of damaging his endocrine system is very real. 23 diminishes that probability dramatically.

SAD, why don't you and the prodigy come to some type of agreement: Get him to swear to stay natural for 2 more years. Then agree to get him what he needs, and give him the guidance to do things right. If he wants to compete with he big dogs, then so be it. Just hold him to his promise.

Then why is title of the thread "Low endocrine impact cycle?"

You were specifically asking for a steroid cycle, and now say you want him not to cycle. Which is it? I recommend NOT cycling. My logic is consistent, yours flip flops back and forth.

This talented young man needs a better mentor, because you are all over the place. Honestly, I would prefer not to have any interaction with you at all, but you seem determined to **** this kid. If you are determined to put kids on cycles, then I am staying as far away from you as possible.

PC, what part of "Please refrain from adding any more of your ignorant advice. We've got this." did you not understand? Reading comprehension, my friend.

Alas, I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

 

[SAD]

Then why is title of the thread "Low endocrine impact cycle?"

You were specifically asking for a steroid cycle, and now say you want him not to cycle. Which is it? I recommend NOT cycling. My logic is consistent, yours flip flops back and forth.

This talented young man needs a better mentor, because you are all over the place. Honestly, I would prefer not to have any interaction with you at all, but you seem determined to **** this kid. If you are determined to put kids on cycles, then I am staying as far away from you as possible.

When I'm in the gym working with another lifter, sometimes I can tell them the same thing over and over and they have trouble taking ONLY my advice. So I'll grab a few of the other experienced lifters and pose the lifter's question to them. When a group of experienced lifters agree wholeheartedly on something, it goes a lot further. Get it? Did you notice that the only post I responded to with "that sounds promising, I'll look into it" was the one by diesel about arachadonic acid?

Now please, with all due respect (which is none), fvck off.