Are you worried about elevated Hemoglobin and Hematocrit due to Testosterone usage?

[MorganKane]

I rather take the word of a hematology doc when it comes to blood related issues over a guy with no medical background that can't post a cite to back is claims.

 

[graniteman]

I rather take the word of a hematology doc when it comes to blood related issues over a guy with no medical background that can't post a cite to back is claims.

Ok, but if a guy is sitting in on current hrt treatments and studies, findings etc, wouldn't it be wise to at least hear him out 1st, then start chucking your rocks?

 

[MorganKane]

Ok, but if a guy is sitting in on current hrt treatments and studies, findings etc, wouldn't it be wise to at least hear him out 1st, then start chucking your rocks?

Go back and read the posts.
I have asked several times for cites to his claims.
The few he posted has nothing to do with the H&H issue.
he tried to derail it via the TRT comment.

Seriously, why should we take the word of a guy who has no medical background over a doctor(s) who specialize in hematology?
You need to come with some solid stuff if you are going to make huge claims that contradicts common understanding of a topic.

I said early on that I am open minded but he has not posted anything..

 

[graniteman]

Go back and read the posts.
I have asked several times for cites to his claims.
The few he posted has nothing to do with the H&H issue.
he tried to derail it via the TRT comment.

Seriously, why should we take the word of a guy who has no medical background over a doctor(s) who specialize in hematology?
You need to come with some solid stuff if you are going to make huge claims that contradicts common understanding of a topic.

I said early on that I am open minded but he has not posted anything..

I'm not saying take anyones word for anything. What I am saying is let the guy put out what he is learning at these seminars, they're not led by ''bro-science guys''. Wasn't long ago people were saying steroids turned people into raging monsters with no self control. That myth is slowly being disspelled but some continue to believe old thoughts. The science in hrt and related areas , believe it or not'' is fairly new and there's really no solid clinical proof on any of this. Your hematologists statement and crowmans are both clinical opinions. Neither one can say conclusively test causes or doesn't cause these conditions as it's never been proven. I've just noticed when we start every convo on new studies and news on these matters the rock throwing 'flat worlders' come out and stifle the convo. How do you expect to get breaking news or treatment changes. I for one would like to hear about new studies and findings and THEN debate them.

 

[creekrat]

Exactly granite. crowman would be responding but he is currently travelling for his business. HRT is still very new as far as medical research goes. This means that every year we better understand it. Kind of like electronics, what you bought yesterday is out of date today. It is constantly evolving.

 

[MorganKane]

I'm not saying take anyones word for anything. What I am saying is let the guy put out what he is learning at these seminars, they're not led by ''bro-science guys''. Wasn't long ago people were saying steroids turned people into raging monsters with no self control. That myth is slowly being disspelled but some continue to believe old thoughts. The science in hrt and related areas , believe it or not'' is fairly new and there's really no solid clinical proof on any of this. Your hematologists statement and crowmans are both clinical opinions. Neither one can say conclusively test causes or doesn't cause these conditions as it's never been proven. I've just noticed when we start every convo on new studies and news on these matters the rock throwing 'flat worlders' come out and stifle the convo. How do you expect to get breaking news or treatment changes. I for one would like to hear about new studies and findings and THEN debate them.

I am still waiting for cites that will back his claims up.
Nothing so far and I have asked many times.

Frankly, I find guys like him to be the most dangerous of all.
Know a little but not the all but sells him self as an expert.

he has a tendency to throw in irrelevant info that just does even apply, example teenage boy got estrogen levels of 80. Some might but we are not talking about them.

So far he has not posted anything that disputes the doctors claims about lowering H&H.
he posted 4 article (I have already posted so no need to rehash it) that does not confirm his claims.
However, he has posted a bunch of irrelevant stuff about TRT and even said this is a TRT forum so that why.
he makes no sense.

I would love to see something that confirms what he says. I do phlebotomy frequently.
I am pretty terrified of having another embolism. Like I said I am open minded but he got nothing so far.
So if you think about it this way. I had an embolism. I was very luck.
I had two oncology/hematology doctors and two pulmonary doctors see me.
I guess between them they had over 100 years of experience and education.
We discussed high H&H and the effort to keep it in normal range. This is ongoing.
Would love to have a different input.

So now tell me why should I take the word for an internet guy with no medical education expect for a few weekend classes that can't even backup his claims.

I can still fell the damage to my lung when I work out from the embolism.

I have experienced high H&H and I have experience low H&H.
I have been on blood thinners both pill form and injectable.

When I dropped a 95lbs dumbbell on my quad I bleed about 3 pints inside my leg.
Biggest hematoma you probably ever saw. Took 4 days to show up and moved from my hip down to my toes in several weeks.

There are even a name for chronic H&H with a treatment to go with it.

yet, crowman claims its nothing to worry about and he dont even do the donate blood crap.

 

[graniteman]

I am still waiting for cites that will back his claims up.
Nothing so far and I have asked many times.

Frankly, I find guys like him to be the most dangerous of all.
Know a little but not the all but sells him self as an expert.

he has a tendency to throw in irrelevant info that just does even apply, example teenage boy got estrogen levels of 80. Some might but we are not talking about them.

So far he has not posted anything that disputes the doctors claims about lowering H&H.
he posted 4 article (I have already posted so no need to rehash it) that does not confirm his claims.
However, he has posted a bunch of irrelevant stuff about TRT and even said this is a TRT forum so that why.
he makes no sense.

I would love to see something that confirms what he says. I do phlebotomy frequently.
I am pretty terrified of having another embolism. Like I said I am open minded but he got nothing so far.
So if you think about it this way. I had an embolism. I was very luck.
I had two oncology/hematology doctors and two pulmonary doctors see me.
I guess between them they had over 100 years of experience and education.
We discussed high H&H and the effort to keep it in normal range. This is ongoing.
Would love to have a different input.

So now tell me why should I take the word for an internet guy with no medical education expect for a few weekend classes that can't even backup his claims.

I can still fell the damage to my lung when I work out from the embolism.

I have experienced high H&H and I have experience low H&H.
I have been on blood thinners both pill form and injectable.

When I dropped a 95lbs dumbbell on my quad I bleed about 3 pints inside my leg.
Biggest hematoma you probably ever saw. Took 4 days to show up and moved from my hip down to my toes in several weeks.

There are even a name for chronic H&H with a treatment to go with it.

yet, crowman claims its nothing to worry about and he dont even do the donate blood crap.

So can you post up the clinical finding where your doc's with 100 years experience told you testosterone caused this? Answer , NO , you cannot because there is no hard scientific fact evidence. I think he started this convo talking about hrt doses not bb ranges. I am on hrt and am interested in seeing new news and views. Believe me if I didn't have to donate blood i would stop immediately

 

[MorganKane]

So can you post up the clinical finding where your doc's with 100 years experience told you testosterone caused this? Answer , NO , you cannot because there is no hard scientific fact evidence. I think he started this convo talking about hrt doses not bb ranges. I am on hrt and am interested in seeing new news and views. Believe me if I didn't have to donate blood i would stop immediately

its not very hard to find studies. This is not an exactly new topic or a topic with controversy or lack of study.
Your claim that no studies exist is just bullshit.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19833630
http://hyper.ahajournals.org/content/20/3/319.full.pdf

HRT does and BB does does not matter. The only thing that matters for discussion is the level of H&H.
I get higher number quicker when I increase my AAS. But regardless for me, the number will creep up over time even when I stay on HRT.
AAS does increase your H&H, thats a fact and my personal experience.
Funny you are attacking that instead of the H&H issues at head.

Again, I am waiting to see his studies that back his huge claims.
I would love to see them. I have asked several times now but nothing so far.

 

[graniteman]

its not very hard to find studies. This is not an exactly new topic or a topic with controversy or lack of study.
Your claim that no studies exist is just bullshit.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19833630
http://hyper.ahajournals.org/content/20/3/319.full.pdf

HRT does and BB does does not matter. The only thing that matters for discussion is the level of H&H.
I get higher number quicker when I increase my AAS. But regardless for me, the number will creep up over time even when I stay on HRT.
AAS does increase your H&H, thats a fact and my personal experience.
Funny you are attacking that instead of the H&H issues at head.

Again, I am waiting to see his studies that back his huge claims.
I would love to see them. I have asked several times now but nothing so far.

You are as obtuse as they come, as well as a arrogant asshole. I said show me conclusive proof that testosterone is the cause, not studies that are inconclusive. Your own examples DO NOT SUPPORT YOUR OWN STATEMENTS! Did you bother reading your proof smart guy? No you didn't . If you would have you would have noted the conclusion was '''suggests'' and ''hypothesis ''. THIS IS NOT CONCLUSIVE, FACT OR DEFINITE. I suggest you get a dictionary and look up these definitions so you do not show your complete inadequacy to participate in conversations at the grown up table..Now go sit down and raise your hand before speaking as you seem unable to operate at this level of discussion.
That is all

For your consumption , this was the name of the thread
Are you worried about elevated Hemoglobin and Hematocrit due to Testosterone usage?

 

[MorganKane]

You are as obtuse as they come, as well as a arrogant asshole. I said show me conclusive proof that testosterone is the cause, not studies that are inconclusive. Your own examples DO NOT SUPPORT YOUR OWN STATEMENTS! Did you bother reading your proof smart guy? No you didn't . If you would have you would have noted the conclusion was '''suggests'' and ''hypothesis ''. THIS IS NOT CONCLUSIVE, FACT OR DEFINITE. I suggest you get a dictionary and look up these definitions so you do not show your complete inadequacy to participate in conversations at the grown up table..Now go sit down and raise your hand before speaking as you seem unable to operate at this level of discussion.
That is all

For your consumption , this was the name of the thread
Are you worried about elevated Hemoglobin and Hematocrit due to Testosterone usage?

Cute...
you think Crowman needs your help so you start the name calling.

 

[graniteman]

its not very hard to find studies. This is not an exactly new topic or a topic with controversy or lack of study.
Your claim that no studies exist is just bullshit.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19833630
http://hyper.ahajournals.org/content/20/3/319.full.pdf

HRT does and BB does does not matter. The only thing that matters for discussion is the level of H&H.
I get higher number quicker when I increase my AAS. But regardless for me, the number will creep up over time even when I stay on HRT.
AAS does increase your H&H, thats a fact and my personal experience.
Funny you are attacking that instead of the H&H issues at head.

Again, I am waiting to see his studies that back his huge claims.
I would love to see them. I have asked several times now but nothing so far.

Cute...
you think Crowman needs your help so you start the name calling.

You need to check your self and the way you post. You come off as arrogant and pompous. I was polite and factual until you started your usual belittling talk. Look at your post to me , do you think you are going to talk to me like that and Im going to stay cordial with you? This ain't Britain bubba and I ain't one of your subjects.
Crowman can speak for himself, I'm just interested in this topic. AGAIN look at the name of the thread.