What makes a person strong

[Haymaker]

How about when a person with sloppy form on bench for example, can push more weight because he is doing things to help move the weight like squirming, contorting his body or something that would get him disqualified in a meet, versus strict good form that limits you to a certain degree of how you can use your body and not move as much weight. So to me, the form issue goes out the window. Form does not equal stregnth.

Mentally, how does mental make a person strong or stronger? Remove the phsycing out part or getting hyped up for a lift. Is it related to "if you can believe it u can achieve it" mind set? Or does the brain send neurons that fire more rapid when forced to exert force?

There's a difference between lifting weight and shifting weight. Someone squirming on a bench is shifting the weight as opposed to someone with perfect form actually lifting (or pushing) the weight. You asked about true strength, not weight numbers.

I'd argue someone doing 5x5 with 225lbs and perfect form is stronger than someone doing say 275lbs for some shitty 3 rep sets.

And if you believe in muscle isolation than form is paramount. Without it your bench press can be just a shoulder exercise. Not to mention most of the time good form promotes heavier weights.

A person's mental state I think has a lot to do with your overall strength over time as well. If your head is in the game and your knocking every session out of the park you'll see way more progress than if your moping around hitting the water fountain after every set.

 

[Go Away]

It's golden oreos, you ****ing lunatic!

End of discussion.

 

[C T J]

Time and consistency. Fast neuro response will speed up the process. Lots of carbs, caffeine and sleep. Also how effecient you're at recruiting the most amount of muscle. Difference in squatting between a guy who knows how to fire quads hams and glutes vs a lifter who's never really thought about it or has not done tests to know how to activate all at once. Lots of lifters are quad dominate and could easily add weight to their lifts with proper activation.

 

[RAIDEN]

There's a difference between lifting weight and shifting weight. Someone squirming on a bench is shifting the weight as opposed to someone with perfect form actually lifting (or pushing) the weight. You asked about true strength, not weight numbers.

I'd argue someone doing 5x5 with 225lbs and perfect form is stronger than someone doing say 275lbs for some shitty 3 rep sets.

And if you believe in muscle isolation than form is paramount. Without it your bench press can be just a shoulder exercise. Not to mention most of the time good form promotes heavier weights.

A person's mental state I think has a lot to do with your overall strength over time as well. If your head is in the game and your knocking every session out of the park you'll see way more progress than if your moping around hitting the water fountain after every set.

I used the example of numbers (weight) to try to paint a picture of what I'm talking about, but yes you are right in that regard. Stay with me here and thank you for engaging the discussion. I'm kind of playing devil's advocate here to try and understand even my own questions that people might be able to answer. So if I respond your answer or someone elses, it's not me trying to be a dick but rather for the sake of argument or rather sake of discussion. Does that make sense? Lol

So, the 5x5 program we used for example, 225 with strict form is stronger than 275 bad form? Strength is strength and you would have to be stronger to pull 275 than 225...right?

 

[RAIDEN]

( I figure if we can debate other non related lifting issues, we sure as heck can debate theories, principles and other things related to lifting... in a civilized manner of course )

 

[monsoon]

There is a difference between absolute strength and relative strength. The 275 with shitty form is closer to the persons absolute strength. The guy pressing 225 5x5 with perfect form can probably single more than 275. Maybe not though...

 

[BrotherIron]

There's a difference between lifting weight and shifting weight. Someone squirming on a bench is shifting the weight as opposed to someone with perfect form actually lifting (or pushing) the weight. You asked about true strength, not weight numbers.

I'd argue someone doing 5x5 with 225lbs and perfect form is stronger than someone doing say 275lbs for some shitty 3 rep sets.

And if you believe in muscle isolation than form is paramount. Without it your bench press can be just a shoulder exercise. Not to mention most of the time good form promotes heavier weights.

A person's mental state I think has a lot to do with your overall strength over time as well. If your head is in the game and your knocking every session out of the park you'll see way more progress than if your moping around hitting the water fountain after every set.

You could argue someone benching 225x5 is stronger then someone benching 275x3 but you'd be wrong. We, and by we I'm talking about strength athletes, measure strength by the numbers lifted... ie. the bigger the number, the stronger the individual. You can lift 225 with perfect form (whatever that's supposed to mean) and someone lifts 315 with shitty form(... again, that's also subjective) and guess what the 315 crushed the 225. Form isn't necessarily the same for 2 people or 20 for that matter b/c you have to take the mechanics of the lifter into consideration.

There is a HUGE mental aspect to lifting especially when lifting for strength. You have to commit with everything you have when your goal is to increase your lifts. This is even more difficult if you do this while staying in the same weight class. It's not as simple as just getting your head into the game....

 

[BrotherIron]

There is a difference between absolute strength and relative strength. The 275 with shitty form is closer to the persons absolute strength. The guy pressing 225 5x5 with perfect form can probably single more than 275. Maybe not though...

You haven't lifted a weight until you've put it on a bar a lifted it. The whole calculator theoretical lifts are just that theory. I've trained with someone who could squat 405 for 10 easy but when we would put 495 on the bar (and we didn't just put it right after) he would fold like a lawn chair. You have to train your nervous system to handle the workload too.

 

[Rottenrogue]

Dedication and discipline.Patience plays a factor as well. The determination to not let life kick you in the balls and keep plugging away.

 

[RAIDEN]

You haven't lifted a weight until you've put it on a bar a lifted it. The whole calculator theoretical lifts are just that theory. I've trained with someone who could squat 405 for 10 easy but when we would put 495 on the bar (and we didn't just put it right after) he would fold like a lawn chair. You have to train your nervous system to handle the workload too.

The nervous system came up earlier, which lead me to believe it has a key role. For example, could we say there are days a person can pull 405 fairly good and then some days 405 feels like 2 tons and barely gets it off the floor because of CNS and things like diet, rest, stress etc ?

 

[SAD]

Genetics X dedication to training X dedication to eating + lifting environment - injuries = Strength

 

[Haymaker]

You could argue someone benching 225x5 is stronger then someone benching 275x3 but you'd be wrong. We, and by we I'm talking about strength athletes, measure strength by the numbers lifted... ie. the bigger the number, the stronger the individual. You can lift 225 with perfect form (whatever that's supposed to mean) and someone lifts 315 with shitty form(... again, that's also subjective) and guess what the 315 crushed the 225. Form isn't necessarily the same for 2 people or 20 for that matter b/c you have to take the mechanics of the lifter into consideration.

There is a HUGE mental aspect to lifting especially when lifting for strength. You have to commit with everything you have when your goal is to increase your lifts. This is even more difficult if you do this while staying in the same weight class. It's not as simple as just getting your head into the game....

If it's just the numbers and form and stuff doesn't matter, what about this girl?

If I could possibly get into that form and bench like that who knows what weight I could get up. Just by the numbers though she's as strong or stronger than a lot of people here.

I didn't mean to sound like getting your head in the game was simple or minor either, just that it helps.