My 20 week cycle...!!!

[woodswise]

1-2 lbs I would still consider to be doing very well! That's 52 lbs a year if only 1 a week! I agree with the initial bloat, but just because you are gaining LBM, it doesn't always mean it will show in your arms, chest, etc right away.

I have to ask, why did you decide to run Deca for only 4 weeks? I did this myself in my very first cycle YEARS ago and deemed it a complete waste by the time I was done. The half life is so ling that I feel like it's just starting to get going by week 4....maybe. Personally I think you should have stuck with Tren from the beginning to avoid the bloat and "artificial" weight gain. You can bulk with tren just as easily as you can cut with it. Adjust your calorie intake and frequency accordingly to achieve desired results. Remember this when you are contemplating the next cycle, just a suggestion.

Also, how well do you respond to Tren? When you cut the test to 100mg weekly I would consider running the masteron and tren near the same dosage as this seems to have a greater effect than one high and one low. Even if you just bump the mast to 300 and lower the tren to 500 I think this will make a big difference for you as far as hardening up and gaining aggression in the gym (as well as the sexual benefits from masteron).

Sorry I confused you. I ran the Adrol for 4 weeks the deca for the full 4 months.

I love tren and have a great response. I probably won't run deca again and will stick to tren. Thanks for the suggestions. You are one of the guys I really trust for this type of advice.

1 to 2 lbs per week is obviously not the muscle gain, but the overall weight gain after the initial gains slow. I am guessing it is at least half fat and maybe some water too, and hopefully at least 1/3 to 1/2 muscle mass. So on a 20 week bulk I would gain maybe half a pound or so in muscle, per week.

While cutting I don't think I am gaining muscle, even if my strength remains good or increases slightly. Even if I am blasting. That is because you need to be in a caloric surplus to gain muscle.

 

[raysd21]

All your doses seem to low to me except the Test seems high at 750mg. Primo and boldenone at those doses are pretty much a waste of time. Primo and EQ in my experience start to hit the sweet spot at around 800mg/week. I've read articles promoting EQ at 2g-3g a week! I like the theory of doing 2 separate blasts. I would get more EQ and start it in week 7 at like 1g frontloaded for 2 weeks. I would also consider compacting this into two 8 week blasts and increase all my doses equally. By the looks of this cycle and how it's layed out....you appear to be new to gear and should not run tren yet. I would buy about 10 more grams of eq and just scratch the tren out for my next cycle.

 

[RAIDEN]

All your doses seem to low to me except the Test seems high at 750mg. Primo and boldenone at those doses are pretty much a waste of time. Primo and EQ in my experience start to hit the sweet spot at around 800mg/week. I've read articles promoting EQ at 2g-3g a week! I like the theory of doing 2 separate blasts. I would get more EQ and start it in week 7 at like 1g frontloaded for 2 weeks. I would also consider compacting this into two 8 week blasts and increase all my doses equally. By the looks of this cycle and how it's layed out....you appear to be new to gear and should not run tren yet. I would buy about 10 more grams of eq and just scratch the tren out for my next cycle.

2-3g of EQ a week? I assume those articles promoting that dose are aimed for seasoned and very advanced users, which still seems alot to me.

 

[woodswise]

All your doses seem to low to me except the Test seems high at 750mg. Primo and boldenone at those doses are pretty much a waste of time. Primo and EQ in my experience start to hit the sweet spot at around 800mg/week. I've read articles promoting EQ at 2g-3g a week! I like the theory of doing 2 separate blasts. I would get more EQ and start it in week 7 at like 1g frontloaded for 2 weeks. I would also consider compacting this into two 8 week blasts and increase all my doses equally. By the looks of this cycle and how it's layed out....you appear to be new to gear and should not run tren yet. I would buy about 10 more grams of eq and just scratch the tren out for my next cycle.

Thank you for telling us you should not be giving AAS advice. Anything else you want to get off your chest while you are at it?

 

[Get Some]

Sorry I confused you. I ran the Adrol for 4 weeks the deca for the full 4 months.

I love tren and have a great response. I probably won't run deca again and will stick to tren. Thanks for the suggestions. You are one of the guys I really trust for this type of advice.

1 to 2 lbs per week is obviously not the muscle gain, but the overall weight gain after the initial gains slow. I am guessing it is at least half fat and maybe some water too, and hopefully at least 1/3 to 1/2 muscle mass. So on a 20 week bulk I would gain maybe half a pound or so in muscle, per week.

While cutting I don't think I am gaining muscle, even if my strength remains good or increases slightly. Even if I am blasting. That is because you need to be in a caloric surplus to gain muscle.

1st bolded part - gotcha, no problem
2nd bolded part - with tren you can definitely build muscle in a caloric deficit. It won't be anything spectacular and that is definitely not its purpose, but it is true. Most guys like to use tren on a cutter because it is a fantastic way to KEEP the muscle you have already gained while you transition into a caloric deficit.

I think you are on the right track here. Keep using tren as long as you don't experience too many negative side effects. I won't run tren again until I am on TRT because it shuts me down too hard and the PCT is miserable!

 

[Get Some]

All your doses seem to low to me except the Test seems high at 750mg. Primo and boldenone at those doses are pretty much a waste of time. Primo and EQ in my experience start to hit the sweet spot at around 800mg/week. I've read articles promoting EQ at 2g-3g a week! I like the theory of doing 2 separate blasts. I would get more EQ and start it in week 7 at like 1g frontloaded for 2 weeks. I would also consider compacting this into two 8 week blasts and increase all my doses equally. By the looks of this cycle and how it's layed out....you appear to be new to gear and should not run tren yet. I would buy about 10 more grams of eq and just scratch the tren out for my next cycle.

Even mentioning that you read an article promoting 2-3g EQ a week tells me that you have no actual experiences running doses that high. Do you have any idea the amount of food you would have to consume to put that to good use? 2-3 grams of EQ a week is more of a waste than what woods suggested. Not everyone has to run super high doses to experience good gains. I can gain at a very rapid rate on 400mg test prop weekly and 25mg dbol a day. Obviously I'm on the other end of the spectrum here, but most people fall somewhere inbetween the two.

Please do not give anymore advice until you have more experience. 800mg EQ a week is not a good recommendation for most people unless you also advise them to give blood more often because of the hematocrit issue it creates. If you actually read what he wrote you would know he has already been running tren and it has been working well for him. And on top of all this, you recommend lowering the dosage of one of the best muscle builders available... test. I don't know what to say about the rest of the post because I'm sure I could pick apart each word and give 3 separate examples of how arbitrary and condescending the nature of it is.

I do not enjoy writing posts such as this, but I feel they are necessary so bad/incomplete information is not spread. btw, this is me being calm and collected

 

[raysd21]

Thank you for telling us you should not be giving AAS advice. Anything else you want to get off your chest while you are at it?

Yeah your trainer is a ****ing idiot advising you to be on gear full blast for 9 months. And you are a bigger idiot for trusting him. Probably one of the most idiotic things I've ever seen is your post on this page entailing your 9 month binge. Being on gear that long is very dangerous and wreckless and you should be ashamed of yourself for promoting it. I wouldn't listen to a fart coming out of your asshole let alone advice out of your mouth on running gear. I would like you to detail the amount of precautions you are taking for blood pressure, RBC, Liver, Kidneys, Hair, prostate and ED just to start. You my friend are a complete moron.

 

[tommyguns2]

How about everyone taking a deep breath and relaxing a bit. We can disagree and give our reasons to support our suggestions, but I've never seen anyone win an argument by calling the other person a moron....

Long cycles can work when you're switching up your compounds like woodwise is doing. Doesn't mean it's for everyone, but it's certainly not a bizarre cycle.

Let's keep it civil gentlemen....

 

[PillarofBalance]

Thanks Tommy

I don't think ray suggested 2 to 3 grams of eq. He just says he has seen people state they take that much.

 

[raysd21]

How about everyone taking a deep breath and relaxing a bit. We can disagree and give our reasons to support our suggestions, but I've never seen anyone win an argument by calling the other person a moron....

Long cycles can work when you're switching up your compounds like woodwise is doing. Doesn't mean it's for everyone, but it's certainly not a bizarre cycle.
Let's keep it civil gentlemen....

I agree. All my statements are based on facts and research not 9 month cycles switched up every 4.5 months. Switching up compounds is a good theory when done properly with the right compounds every 4-8 weeks not.... Run one cycle 4 months then switch it up to another cycle for 4 months that is NOT switching up your compounds properly. That is running two AAS cycle blasts back to back. And I stand by my statements on EQ. EVERYONE knows you are supposed to frontload EQ. The OP is doing the exact opposite which supports my theory he has no idea what he is doing so shouldn't run Tren. Also you can read my newest posted thread about Boldenone in the AAS profiles section here:http://www.theironden.com/forum/thr...uigan-and-Ultragen-Doses-Cycle-Length-Profile

And my final note to Wood,.... I also wouldn't listen to anyone running Tren E. Only real men running Tren A.:homo:

 

[raysd21]

Thanks Tommy

I don't think ray suggested 2 to 3 grams of eq. He just says he has seen people state they take that much.

It's just an article I read I don't recommend it. But you have to admit the OP's EQ dose is LOL low. All the OP's doses are off. In all honesty his whole cycle looks like a joke to me. Like a 5th grader is taking the piss.

 

[1bigun11]

I like long cycles too, lol. Just thought I'd throw that in......