Healthy eating alone for fat loss

[shortz]

The insulin spike it causes is what's wrong with it. Are you saying that 20g of carbs from oatmeal vs 20g of carbs from Fruity Pebbles will give you the same effect on your physique?

That's exactly what we're saying. The insulin spike and it's effect on fat gains are grossly exaggerated. If you keep your calories and macros on track, based on your goals and activity levels, your insulin spikes aren't going to make you fat. This has been a long standing myth that we're trying to get people to see. It's all about keeping your macros and calories in a range of what your body needs, and from there, quality of foods have very little, if any, impact on physique.

The down side is, as CC already mentioned, is that, if you decide to consume all that sugar, your going to be hungry a lot. Eating healthier, lower GI foods and more micro nutrients will help with satiety.

The weight lifting world, as well as the diet world, is slowly starting to see this and we're seeing a very big shift in how diets are done, all the way from the bottom all the way to the top of the ranks. The only time you're going to want to use those strict, low carb diets etc, is when you're doing contest prep and you need to manipulate carbs and sodium to be stage ready. Until that point, you can eat pretty much anything you want.

 

[nychris]

I'm not buying it at all, but if anyone wants to prove it it would be a cool experiment to see. Let's see before and after pictures of someone getting shredded eating small amounts of Fruity Pebbles all day as their main source of carbs. Any takers?

 

[chiseledchap]

No point in arguing, just talk to a nutritionist they'll tell you the same thing.


The insulin spike is irrelevant, its going to happen as soon as glucose is detected in the blood stream man, doesn't matter how long it takes for the carbs to be digested or what kind u eat or if the glucose even originally came from carbs in the first place.. ur pancreas doesnt release unlimited amounts of insulin upon sensing elevated BG LEVEls, its completely titrated and oscilates in 3-6 min intervals generally unless ur diabetic until levels are lowered. Insulin even though it's a storage hormone isn't going to make u fat or gain weight, that's totally calorie dependant

Totally 100% not BSing you when I tell you this stuff. I grew up super fat and consequently studied a lot of nutrition in school, but if u don't wanna believe me just do a google search. Avoid the BBing "broscientists" and you'll see the awesomely dietary freeing truth lol





Also this is NOT me saying choosing simple carbs is HEALTHIER than choosing complex, I'm just saying you will still lose weight pending yor still within your caloric range and/or still can be shredded eating this way.

 

[shortz]

I'm not buying it at all, but if anyone wants to prove it it would be a cool experiment to see. Let's see before and after pictures of someone getting shredded eating small amounts of Fruity Pebbles all day as their main source of carbs. Any takers?

Here is my progress using these principles and eatin whatever I wanted (IIFYM).

This was my next bulk...

and then cut on IIFYM again the next season

 

[nychris]

No point in arguing, just talk to a nutritionist they'll tell you the same thing.


The insulin spike is irrelevant, its going to happen as soon as glucose is detected in the blood stream man, doesn't matter how long it takes for the carbs to be digested or what kind u eat or if the glucose even originally came from carbs in the first place.. ur pancreas doesnt release unlimited amounts of insulin upon sensing elevated BG LEVEls, its completely titrated and oscilates in 3-6 min intervals generally unless ur diabetic until levels are lowered. Insulin even though it's a storage hormone isn't going to make u fat or gain weight, that's totally calorie dependant

Totally 100% not BSing you when I tell you this stuff. I grew up super fat and consequently studied a lot of nutrition in school, but if u don't wanna believe me just do a google search. Avoid the BBing "broscientists" and you'll see the awesomely dietary freeing truth lol





Also this is NOT me saying choosing simple carbs is HEALTHIER than choosing complex, I'm just saying you will still lose weight pending yor still within your caloric range and/or still can be shredded eating this way.

I never considered this an argument, more of a debate. You've made some interesting points but I think the point I was trying to make was missed when I jokingly compared oatmeal to Fruity Pebbles. If your diet called for 50g of carbs (one cup oatmeal), you can't replace it with Fruity Pebbles because the equivalent amount of carbs would give you maybe 20g of fat that the oatmeal does not. A bowl of granola cereal has no place in a fat loss diet because the macro nutrient breakdown would never provide what you looking for if you are on a calculated diet. The thing I wrote that started this whole thing off was that you can't eat granola and dairy on a true fat loss diet and I stand by that because it's not realistic. Another factor is energy levels. I won't speak for everyone, but I for one would feel like complete shit if my diet consisted of 300g of dextrose daily vs more complex carbohydrate sources.

What about protein? I feel that the higher quality protein sources yield better results vs an equivalent amount of the inferior ones. I have a lot of dieting experience and I've seen the results of this.

 

[shortz]

The thing I wrote that started this whole thing off was that you can't eat granola and dairy on a true fat loss diet and I stand by that because it's not realistic.
.

But I just showed you that you can eat granola and dairy. The pics I provided are me doing just that, and many other things you said I shouldn't be eating to get lean.

So then, what is your definition of a "true fat loss diet"?

 

[woodswise]

But I just showed you that you can eat granola and dairy. The pics I provided are me doing just that, and many other things you said I shouldn't be eating to get lean.

So then, what is your definition of a "true fat loss diet"?

It seems to me the question is, not whether you can lose weight eating high GI carbs and other such foods (as long as you hit your target macros), but whether it is better to eat like a normal person when cutting, or better to eat like a BBer when cutting.

You may argue it makes no difference, but I have dieted both ways and I know it does make a huge difference for me, anyway.

 

[shortz]

It seems to me the question is, not whether you can lose weight eating high GI carbs and other such foods (as long as you hit your target macros), but whether it is better to eat like a normal person when cutting, or better to eat like a BBer when cutting.

You may argue it makes no difference, but I have dieted both ways and I know it does make a huge difference for me, anyway.

Edit. I want to rethink this reply

 

[shortz]

It seems to me the question is, not whether you can lose weight eating high GI carbs and other such foods (as long as you hit your target macros), but whether it is better to eat like a normal person when cutting, or better to eat like a BBer when cutting.

You may argue it makes no difference, but I have dieted both ways and I know it does make a huge difference for me, anyway.

So to the first part, what is "better"? If for satiety, then I agree, eating healthier, high fiber, low GI etc will usually help satiety. As for body comp, there is no difference if macros and calories are in line. Water weight might be a bit different, but that's the extent of it.

I want to go in to what you just stated as a conclusion. What I hate about the whole "Well, what works for you won't work for me" is that you're giving a conclusion that I might not be able to disprove, but, you haven't proven either. It's a generic reply I get from a lot of people. My entire diet debate is all about how we are not as individualistic as many think we are. Unless there is some metabolic disorder going on, then the same principles can be applied to all diets, and the outcome will be the same. If you found a lack of success on a diet, it wasn't because it "didn't work for you", I feel it's because you simply didn't have the right calories/macros to make it work.

IMO, the only way to prove what you are saying, is to apply a diet, post up what your calorie and macro break down is, what you ate every day, and post pics. Do that for two different cutting sessions, and go from and end up at a reasonably low BF for both.

 

[IronCore]

OK... lets prove it this way...

Both of you come up with a diet... I will run one for 4 weeks.. and the other for 4 weeks... whichever one I lose the most fat on is the winner...

OR... if they are equally effective then we shall see that both are winners... either way... fat loss is winning no matter how you look at it... the best method would be the fastest IMO...

so... get started on the diet... PM me for stats

 

[Turbolag]

I just wanted to add that using the diet method Shortz is referring to I lost 20 pounds after my back surgery.

I ate the cereal of my choosing for my 10 am meal, and had cheese with my egg whites.

I had a lot of stuff I would never have had using the principals I used to follow.

Its not a diet for everyone though. Remember, even though you can eat foods of your choosing, certain foods eat up your calorie total for the day. So being strategic and planning is really important.

IIFYM is still a diet and you will still be hungry. BUT, it helps the hunger pains being able to enjoy some of the stuff you are consuming.

I like it because you have so many food options.

Once I got back into the gym I wanted to put the IIFYM to the test. So after my workout I went to Taco Bell. I ordered a crunchy taco and a XXL Steak Burrito. The calorie total for these two items was about 1,100.

This was my second meal for the day and put me with about 800 remaining calories for the day.

I don't remember what my following meals were, I can look it up on my fitness pal though.

I don't think you should do that everyday though for health reasons, but once or twice a week I don't see an issue.

I think when we "diet" it is generally to get healthier, and avoiding sugary cereals and fast food is usually on the no no list.

But if you haven't tried IIFYM I definitely think you should give it a shot for a month and see how you like it. It might be something you like and then it may not be for you.

Also, just because you are on IIFYM doesn't mean you have to eat junk calories. I tried to set my diet up to where about 80-90% of my intake was pretty clean, and I left the other 10% for whatever I could fit into my daily allowance.

Just my thoughts. IIFYM isn't the only diet out there, its just an option from the list.

 

[shortz]

lol I remember turbo sending me a PM about eating junk once. He soon realized that when you eat a lot of junk, the volume of food you can eat greatly diminishes, so that's what sets off the little thing in your head that says "Hmm, that means, if I eat a little junk, and a lot more healthy stuff, I get more food!". I never tell someone "Just eat all junk". Bottom line is, it's a sure way to fail because you will be even more hungry, and your appetite will be insane. Junk food triggers more hunger. That said, the principles are the same though. If you COULD do it, you will still be successful. I have done it many ways, and results were always great.