Healthy eating alone for fat loss

[shortz]

lol You ladies are brutal!!

I have noticed, with natties, that they do sometimes look a bit flat, especially in the chest. I think it's from two reasons 1. Natties actually end up being leaner than the heavier guys 2. They just don't have the mass to appear as full.

If I am not mistaken, natties will hit 4% pretty regularly, where as the heavies might only get down to about 6-7%. I am still looking for those updated pics though. I will dig them up eventually. If it's at a later date, I'll devote a thread to him and other natties.

 

[chiseledchap]

Shortz you know what's up bud, love it! BUT

I gotta agree with TG shortz. That muscle fullness, read delt and delt and chest pop in general, shredded glutes, big full arms, legs esp hammies- those boys aren't natural in the least bit IMO. I did the natty route for almost 8 years, you can get into great shape feeling horrible, but you won't look like a genuine bodybuilder without hormones. I def see some diuretic use there too.

Your thyroid and andtest production would be totally effed, BF levels and dietary fat play a big role in healthy hormone production when ur natural. When you diet to body fat levels that low, if its even possible natty, your calories are so low your body would just be epically messed, wiener won't work, terribly depressed etc. think concentration camp victims, if they were allowed to lift weights no way they'd look like that. Maybe not that extreme but anyone who diets hardcore naturally knows the hell that soon happens when you get lean enough, and they know how good you can look. Layne norton is another example lol.



Also nothing against ur friends cause everyone has their reasons they "lie" legalities, natural leagues, source of income etc but even on hormones to look like that takes dedication and will power most will never have. They both look stupendously incredible for that I respect them. Also I'm not trying to argue just putting my educated opinion out there my man!

 

[shortz]

Shortz you know what's up bud, love it! BUT

I gotta agree with TG shortz. That muscle fullness, read delt and delt and chest pop in general, shredded glutes, big full arms, legs esp hammies- those boys aren't natural in the least bit IMO. I did the natty route for almost 8 years, you can get into great shape feeling horrible, but you won't look like a genuine bodybuilder without hormones. I def see some diuretic use there too.

Your thyroid and andtest production would be totally effed, BF levels and dietary fat play a big role in healthy hormone production when ur natural. When you diet to body fat levels that low, if its even possible natty, your calories are so low your body would just be epically messed, wiener won't work, terribly depressed etc. think concentration camp victims, if they were allowed to lift weights no way they'd look like that. Maybe not that extreme but anyone who diets hardcore naturally knows the hell that soon happens when you get lean enough, and they know how good you can look. Layne norton is another example lol.



Also nothing against ur friends cause everyone has their reasons they "lie" legalities, natural leagues, source of income etc but even on hormones to look like that takes dedication and will power most will never have. They both look stupendously incredible for that I respect them. Also I'm not trying to argue just putting my educated opinion out there my man!

I admitted, the high level natty guys aren't natty. I did state they all take supps at certain times of the year, but just have to be clean for the testing. They aren't on the amounts that the non-tested guys are either. It's my understanding, they do cut while on aas, simply because, as someone that spends some of the year natty, they are certainly not going to cut completely natty and lose all those hard earned gains. I have been in this game too long to be fooled that anyone gets to that level, and gets that shredded, and manages to maintain the mass, without aas.

I am pretty sure my buddy isn't 100% natty either, but I can't get him to cough up the admission. I understand why he denies it though. There's a stigma surrounding it, and he feels if he admits it, then all his credibility goes out the door. So, I don't push him on it.

That's with ANY diet though. I just don't want someone trying to discredit a diet because someone wasn't or isn't natty. That's a cop out from the debate. I do know of dozens of guys that use it that are natty as well, but aren't competitors. You would think they were though, because of how ridiculously shredded they get in the summer time. They just aren't massive, is all. I'll dig up a few true natty pics of IIFYM guys.

 

[Anabolic Reality]

I just started reading this thread. I was watching a documentary with Jay Cutler in it the other day and he alluded to this. He obviously eats very clean but he mentions that he eats certain foods only because they either break down quicker or slower than others when he needs a certain amount of energy. That's what seems to be important, not the actual "cleanliness" of the food. I'm a novice and my diet is still in the works but I'm finding this thread to have a ton if good information!

That's exactly what we're saying. The insulin spike and it's effect on fat gains are grossly exaggerated. If you keep your calories and macros on track, based on your goals and activity levels, your insulin spikes aren't going to make you fat. This has been a long standing myth that we're trying to get people to see. It's all about keeping your macros and calories in a range of what your body needs, and from there, quality of foods have very little, if any, impact on physique.

The down side is, as CC already mentioned, is that, if you decide to consume all that sugar, your going to be hungry a lot. Eating healthier, lower GI foods and more micro nutrients will help with satiety.

The weight lifting world, as well as the diet world, is slowly starting to see this and we're seeing a very big shift in how diets are done, all the way from the bottom all the way to the top of the ranks. The only time you're going to want to use those strict, low carb diets etc, is when you're doing contest prep and you need to manipulate carbs and sodium to be stage ready. Until that point, you can eat pretty much anything you want.

 

[Anabolic Reality]

Weight watchers uses this principle. Just gives "points" for different foods. You can eat a Big Mac everyday if u choose, you just can't eat anything else lol.

I just wanted to add that using the diet method Shortz is referring to I lost 20 pounds after my back surgery.

I ate the cereal of my choosing for my 10 am meal, and had cheese with my egg whites.

I had a lot of stuff I would never have had using the principals I used to follow.

Its not a diet for everyone though. Remember, even though you can eat foods of your choosing, certain foods eat up your calorie total for the day. So being strategic and planning is really important.

IIFYM is still a diet and you will still be hungry. BUT, it helps the hunger pains being able to enjoy some of the stuff you are consuming.

I like it because you have so many food options.

Once I got back into the gym I wanted to put the IIFYM to the test. So after my workout I went to Taco Bell. I ordered a crunchy taco and a XXL Steak Burrito. The calorie total for these two items was about 1,100.

This was my second meal for the day and put me with about 800 remaining calories for the day.

I don't remember what my following meals were, I can look it up on my fitness pal though.

I don't think you should do that everyday though for health reasons, but once or twice a week I don't see an issue.

I think when we "diet" it is generally to get healthier, and avoiding sugary cereals and fast food is usually on the no no list.

But if you haven't tried IIFYM I definitely think you should give it a shot for a month and see how you like it. It might be something you like and then it may not be for you.

Also, just because you are on IIFYM doesn't mean you have to eat junk calories. I tried to set my diet up to where about 80-90% of my intake was pretty clean, and I left the other 10% for whatever I could fit into my daily allowance.

Just my thoughts. IIFYM isn't the only diet out there, its just an option from the list.

 

[tightglutes]

lol You ladies are brutal!!

I have noticed, with natties, that they do sometimes look a bit flat, especially in the chest. I think it's from two reasons 1. Natties actually end up being leaner than the heavier guys 2. They just don't have the mass to appear as full.

If I am not mistaken, natties will hit 4% pretty regularly, where as the heavies might only get down to about 6-7%. I am still looking for those updated pics though. I will dig them up eventually. If it's at a later date, I'll devote a thread to him and other natties.

Yes we are.

 

[shortz]

Weight watchers uses this principle. Just gives "points" for different foods. You can eat a Big Mac everyday if u choose, you just can't eat anything else lol.

You're exactly right. Calories are king, macros are second. For joe Blow, calories are really the only thing to worry about, because you will likely easily get your needed protein. So, each meal is given a number based on how many calories it has. It's an easier way of tracking calories.

Cheeseburgers can be very deceiving. Ever see the infamous Smokehouse burger on menus? Before, it has almost as many calories that most of us are allowed in a single day of cutting. Upwards of 2200!! I can't even fit that in to my diet in the first place lol

 

[IronCore]

If you were asking me to come up with a diet, I will be willing to do that. Do you want only macros, or foods too? Do you want to diet while on carbs or on keto only? I am thinking on carbs so the comparison will work.

Here is what I propose. Give both of us your stats, Shortz and I agree on the macros and Kcals. I prescribe the clean diet and will give you some parameters (i.e. no processed foods with high sugar content, no beer, alcohol, etc. a very strict bodybuilding diet, and Shortz prescribes the normal foods diet.

I have to admit, my one limitation is I have been doing keto diets of late and it has been a few years since I dieted while eating carbs, so I am a bit rusty on how to structure it. But so long as you eat clean and hit the macros, I think it will work and be a fair competition.

thanks.. PM coming!

 

[Turbolag]

Weight watchers uses this principle. Just gives "points" for different foods. You can eat a Big Mac everyday if u choose, you just can't eat anything else lol.

You're exactly right. Calories are king, macros are second. For joe Blow, calories are really the only thing to worry about, because you will likely easily get your needed protein. So, each meal is given a number based on how many calories it has. It's an easier way of tracking calories.

Cheeseburgers can be very deceiving. Ever see the infamous Smokehouse burger on menus? Before, it has almost as many calories that most of us are allowed in a single day of cutting. Upwards of 2200!! I can't even fit that in to my diet in the first place lol

Haha, yep. I remember sending Shortz a pm saying "man calories add up fast!" ..... This is what Shortz was referring to earlier in the thread when he said he remembers me sending him a pm about calories adding up fast. Hahaha

You learn pretty quick to make sure you are mathematical.

One time I cooked two red meat patties and I didn't realize until after starting to cook them that they were almost 400 calories a piece. I lost almost 1,000 macro points from just those patties.

I didn't eat much red meat after that. Haha

The strategy I came up with for myself was to limit my not as healthy foods mostly to night time because I would be filling up my remainder calories. Instead of using them earlier in the day.

I tend to not be hungry after around 2pm, but my appetite comes back around 8pm.

I usually would make my next meal around 9pm, so this worked real nice.

I cut off any food after 10pm, and wouldn't eat until 10am the next day.

I just did a cheated version of IF. Only a 12 hour fast instead of 16. That's another story but I liked it.

 

[SakuraIron]

Loved reading this whole thread. I totally support IIFYM and it's helped me have a better relationship with food. I haven't binged in ages because I don't feel as restricted.

I like how someone said earlier about what Layne said the whole 90%, 100% of the time vs 100%, 70% of the time. When I ate all "clean" foods my last prep, I would binge HARD on the weekend when it came to my cheat meal. This is also with my background of eating disorders, bad habits came back. Mental health/strength is so important when it ocmes to show prep.

I plan to be using flexible dieting during my prep and I'll be logging it as well here. Not so much focus on the diet day to day since it'll be "my first cycle" log but I will be including some details about diet here and there.