Goodbye Obamacare

[tommyguns2]

right,
free market,
self regulating,
fixes its self,
worked so far...

There has not been a "free market" in health insurance or health care for 50 years. So it's hard to really grade the market.

Neither Obamacare nor Trumpcare address health care. Both address health insurance. That's not the same. No one was being denied health care before or after Obamacare, only people were being denied health insurance.

Insurance someone with a pre-existing condition may be the right thing, it may not. I'm not really sure what to do about that. But don't call paying his/her expenses insurance. That's NOT insurance. It's pre-paid health expenses, or whatever. Insurance means something very specific, and when you force insurance companies to do something else, it's no longer health insurance they are providing. Right or wrong, I can't say, but we need to call it what it is.

 

[Yomo]

 

[PillarofBalance]

Government is supposed to protect you and your rights,

Pretty much as soon as you said this, every point after becomes null and void. Demonstrated a complete misunderstanding of how this Government works.

Government tramples on your rights every chance it gets and fights against the constraints of our Constitution. Nowhere in the enumerated powers does it require the federal government to protect you and your rights.

 

[PillarofBalance]

There has not been a "free market" in health insurance or health care for 50 years. So it's hard to really grade the market.

Neither Obamacare nor Trumpcare address health care. Both address health insurance. That's not the same. No one was being denied health care before or after Obamacare, only people were being denied health insurance.

Insurance someone with a pre-existing condition may be the right thing, it may not. I'm not really sure what to do about that. But don't call paying his/her expenses insurance. That's NOT insurance. It's pre-paid health expenses, or whatever. Insurance means something very specific, and when you force insurance companies to do something else, it's no longer health insurance they are providing. Right or wrong, I can't say, but we need to call it what it is.

Subtracting emotion from this issue is nearly impossible I guess.

If insurance companies didn't try to improve their profit margins by denying coverage to people we probably wouldn't be in this mess. Weird shit they do. Like I have a co worker who had cancer in her left breast. Her old insurance plan covered her completely... except anything related to her breasts... I think we can all agree breasts deserve extra special protection.

But back to my point - denying coverage is the same as denying care in some cases. When you don't have coverage for a tumor on the pancreas and you need a pancreatic-duodenectomy that will bankrupt your family some may rather die.

From the group who is so often espousing their Christian values in political and legal arguments - taking care of the least among us and those who can't help themselves - that is something we can and should aspire to do.

 

[Gms585]

Socialists want everyone to feel it's their moral obligation to provide free healthcare to their fellowman. Then again, they also want everyone to feel it's ok to kill an unborn child. GTFOH with your fake moral hypocrisy...

Lol socialism especially health services socialism is now linked to abortion.

People like to say liberalism is a mental disorder. Well I think partisan political thinking is the real issue.

 

[DaSarge]

Lol socialism especially health services socialism is now linked to abortion.

People like to say liberalism is a mental disorder. Well I think partisan political thinking is the real issue.

You could give the socialists everything they ask for and they'd still find something to complain about.
You could give every single one of them completely free healthcare and they'd still find something to whine about.
I could hear it now:
"I know I get free healthcare, but why is his doctor closer than my doctor"? "It's not fair that I have to drive 5 minutes further to get to my doctor. This needs to be fixed immediately!"
"Why does he get to have a male doctor, and I have to have a female doctor"? "It's not fair."
"Why do I have to make an appointment to see my doctor"? "I need treatment right now, not when it's convenient for the doctor." "It's not fair".
The constant whining, complaining, and protesting of these f*cking crybabies has gotten old quickly...

 

[Snake]

Nobody who says something as fucking stupid as

"Nobody knew how complex healthcare is"

Should get a say in how healthcare is provided and paid for.[/QUOTE


That says it all for me, not only about healthcare, but the whole Trump presidency.
The guy is clueless about government and politics.
This isn't a boardroom, or a TV show.
He doesn't even know how bills are psssed.
He doesn't know what kids in Community College know after one poly-sci course.

 

[rawdeal]

I'm so sick of whining crybabies that I'm getting sick of less fortunate people who whine.

My bible includes quotes from the Grand Inquisitor part from The Brothers Karamazov, the one where Jesus returns, and the Inquisitor tells him in effect, Go away, we don't need you anymore.

 

[FlyingDragon]

Healthcare should be not for profit....

 

[HGH]

our problem with healthcare is this:

Americans believe that even if we're 80 years old, if we get cancer then our insurance should spend four million dollars on a procedure that will extend our life by 3 months.

That's bullshit, and makes healthcare for everyone expensive.

Americans believe that we should get a free mammogram at age 30.

That's bullshit.

Americans believe that if they give birth to a brain-dead paraplegic that health insurance should pay to keep them as a living vegetable for the longest length of time possible.

That's bullshit.

Americans believe that they should get to smoke 3 packs a day for 30 years and then insurance should pay for their lung cancer.

That's bullshit.

Americans believe they should be able to knowingly have sex with a person who is HIV positive, and that if they contract HIV their insurance should pay for their $4,000/month treatment for life. (this is a real argument i had with a person i know).

There are ways for healthcare to be more reasonably priced for everyone. It could even be socialized if we limit what it covers to shit that is within reason.

 

[rawdeal]

I'm down with this.

as long as we can all agree on what within reason means.

 

[Gms585]

our problem with healthcare is this:

Americans believe that even if we're 80 years old, if we get cancer then our insurance should spend four million dollars on a procedure that will extend our life by 3 months.

People Like you are why idiots are scared of "death panels"

Americans believe that we should get a free mammogram at age 30.

preventative medicine and testing is proven to keep healthcare cost low. so... bad argument.

Americans believe that if they give birth to a brain-dead paraplegic that health insurance should pay to keep them as a living vegetable for the longest length of time possible.

Dr.HGH-mengele says gas those burdens on society!

Americans believe that they should get to smoke 3 packs a day for 30 years and then insurance should pay for their lung cancer.

This is blatantly not the general belief in this country. Just look at the direction f smoking laws and practices.
This is:

Americans believe they should be able to knowingly have sex with a person who is HIV positive, and that if they contract HIV their insurance should pay for their $4,000/month treatment for life. (this is a real argument i had with a person i know).

Who The F$%# is doing this? No One. No One is willingly contacting AIDS More :

There are ways for healthcare to be more reasonably priced for everyone. It could even be socialized if we limit what it covers to shit that is within reason.
This is the more reasonable statement and inference in you post. I think perhaps I'd prefer someone slightly more compassionate making the plan, but yes single payer / socialized health care can be done sustainably and efficiently as it is done in MANY MANY other countries.