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Wrong about diets

BackAtIt

BackAtIt

MuscleHead
Oct 3, 2016
1,774
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Of course they will, and there's plenty of world class athletes who pound calories, including vast amounts of carbs, who stay incredibly lean. Michael Phelps immediately came to mind. Triathletes are another group. Vegans eat a disproportionate amount of carbs also.

Carbohydrate/Insulin is not the problem(barring medical conditions). It's being a lazy slob who doesn't eat to activity level.

Plus... You burn a lot of fat during sleep.

I agree, CJS!....I think that is the 'key', activity!.....After reading all these reply's in this thread, I'm getting that we can eat ALL 3 macro's and achieve our goals AS LONG AS WE STAY ACTIVE!....Again, I do believe activity being THE "secrete"...
.
 
DungeonDweller

DungeonDweller

VIP Member
Mar 21, 2017
1,204
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With the amount he trained, the amount of peds he used, and the amount of protein he consumed — yea, he could get away with murder so far as composition while consuming a lot of shit— but obviously it wasn’t healthy.
Its also talked about that he was also into recreational drugs as well. Some people burn the candle at both ends. Piana burned it in the middle as well.
 
testboner

testboner

VIP Member
Oct 10, 2010
518
361
Hey America, just keep on eating what you’re eating and getting western “healthcare.”
All they need is exorcise, right?
It’s bigger than that.

“The U.S. is the only developed country in the world that has experienced a decrease in healthy life expectancy in any period since 2010.”

 
macgyver

macgyver

TID Board Of Directors
Nov 24, 2011
1,776
1,289
Is it the ONLY successful way of eating? No, certainly not —

I have never stated that your diet wont work. I have just said that I believe there is no need to be so spartan.

I spent 2+ years eating Keto (ckd) and while it was probably the most effective diet for me, my life and enjoyment of life was miserable.

I have since learned 'I can have my cake and eat it too'!. That is what my points are (although hyperbolic at times). I dont expect anyone would believe it is healthy to eat ALL their carbs from pop tarts, but from a composition standpoint, it really would have little impact.

Of course we should always choose quality foods as the basis of our diet. But there is room to live as well. Balance in all things. And you can enjoy food and still be ripped if you want. It just comes down to portion control.

Alan wrote another great article I will see if I can find. The theme was an 80/20 diet. Moderation with room for enjoyment.


It took me a bunch of years to realize all this and for many I resisted. Watching others in far better shape than myself allowed me to try it. When I did, I realized dropping fat is possible and still eating icecream, pasta, fruit...etc. It is just portion sizes.
 
testboner

testboner

VIP Member
Oct 10, 2010
518
361
I have never stated that your diet wont work. I have just said that I believe there is no need to be so spartan.

I spent 2+ years eating Keto (ckd) and while it was probably the most effective diet for me, my life and enjoyment of life was miserable.

I have since learned 'I can have my cake and eat it too'!. That is what my points are (although hyperbolic at times). I dont expect anyone would believe it is healthy to eat ALL their carbs from pop tarts, but from a composition standpoint, it really would have little impact.

Of course we should always choose quality foods as the basis of our diet. But there is room to live as well. Balance in all things. And you can enjoy food and still be ripped if you want. It just comes down to portion control.

Alan wrote another great article I will see if I can find. The theme was an 80/20 diet. Moderation with room for enjoyment.


It took me a bunch of years to realize all this and for many I resisted. Watching others in far better shape than myself allowed me to try it. When I did, I realized dropping fat is possible and still eating icecream, pasta, fruit...etc. It is just portion sizes.
Bro, I completed Alan’s presentation.
In part, what he preaches is just as equally false as it is true — it’s more neutral. And I don’t (never really have) disagree, though he’s heavily bias in the position he posits just as the strongest carnivore advocates, and vegans, Palio advocates, etc are.
At the end of it all, it’s up to each individual to base their choice on as much data input as possible (research of all positions),specific intent of goals, lifestyle appropriateness, and some other determiners.
A “Successful” diet can be highly subjective depending on goal specifics.
My decision for settling on carnivore is multi fold: it fits my energy, composition, and health pursuits. It also challenges me to self discipline that is empowering and translates to most every other aspect of life in general.
Is it restrictive? It was for a period of time, but I long ago adapted. My leeway of enjoyment of other foods is satisfied by my once a week cheat (typically). And that cheat is soooo much more fulfilling and flavorful and appreciated because it’s not taken for granted — I have to EARN it and it’s a reward of pleasure to enjoy. If I routinely indulged, the sensation of enjoyment wouldn’t have nearly the same zing to it.
And most importantly, I’m minimizing the amount of potential negative health impacts.

Yes, you can “have your cake and eat it too,” but at some point there IS a cost.
 
CJ Smalls

CJ Smalls

Member
Aug 15, 2020
41
36
Don't eat too much shit food and get off your ass and move. That'll get you 90+% of the way there.... Adjust accordingly for your own individual needs.
 
Bigtex

Bigtex

VIP Member
Aug 14, 2012
746
1,073
A good post Tex. Thank you for posting it. It’s useful for all readers.
A couple comments; carbs (not simply glucose / “simple carbs”) come in many forms — some natural and others anything but natural. ALL carbs (dextrose, sucrose, fructose, etc….) go through various conversion processes eventually making glucose. The various substrates have differing actions though.
Far more in-depth than “simple carbs” and “complex carbs.” And far more in-depth than simply low and high glycemic.
The amount and rate at which insulin rises and falls varies RADICALLY!
And in the state of health (lack of health) that most Americans are in; insulin resistant / pre-diabetic and diabetic, along with the common frequency of consumption from morning into evening — insulin levels seldom drop into a normal range for the avg American.

Also, ancestrally, carbs aren’t much of a species appropriate macro. They aren’t common in nature (basically they weren’t globally available, and they were seasonal). What is common are fats (most abundantly saturated) and protein.
Being that carbs are technically a non-essential macro nutrient —non essential because we don’t have to exogenously ingest them to produce our body’s minimum need (because of processes like gluconeogenesis),an animal based diet (example: beef, fish, organs) is the most natural / species appropriate way of nourishment.
Excessive carb consumption came about only in fairly recent history. To the extent (and types) consumed, it’s highly unnatural.

So far as Fung as an “expert,” in a certain respect he is. He’s a nephrologist (as you’re aware) treating metabolic conditions daily in his practice, primarily via nutrition. Has written books on diet and nutrition and fasting, and a diligent researcher of nutrition and metabolic studies, etc. He qualifies as an “expert” of sorts.

Carbs can be / are a tool for various specific uses, but their consumption isn’t optimal for overall health. Sports supplements are another example of the same principle; effective as tools for various goals / uses, but not a true natural contributor to overall health.

Sorry for misspellings / grammar mistakes. Typing thoughts quickly on my phone between sets at gym!

Thank you! I do appreciate the kind words and the feeling is mutual. You are very well educated in this subject and it is a pleasure to discuss this with you.

When I was talking about sugar I did mention Sucrose
which to clarify is a disaccharide consisting of one glucose and one fructose molecule. Absolutely all sweets/carbs are different. But then that could make a whole new discussion.

Is obesity.....and the lack of exercise a huge health problem?

Key findings from The National Diabetes Statistics Report, 2020 include:
  • 34.2 million Americans—just over 1 in 10—have diabetes.
  • 88 million American adults—approximately 1 in 3—have prediabetes.
  • New diabetes cases were higher among non-Hispanic blacks and people of Hispanic origin than non-Hispanic Asians and non-Hispanic whites.
  • For adults diagnosed with diabetes:
    • New cases significantly decreased from 2008 through 2018.
    • The percentage of existing cases was highest among American Indians/Alaska Natives.
    • 15% were smokers, 89% were overweight, and 38% were physically inactive.
    • 37% had chronic kidney disease (stages 1 through 4); and fewer than 25% with moderate to severe chronic kidney disease (stage 3 or 4) were aware of their condition.
  • New diagnosed cases of type 1 and type 2 diabetes have significantly increased among US youth.
  • For ages 10 to 19 years, incidence of type 2 diabetes remained stable among non-Hispanic whites and increased for all others, especially non-Hispanic blacks.
  • The percentage of adults with prediabetes who were aware they had the condition doubled between 2005 and 2016, but most continue to be unaware.
What further comoounds the problem is in the last few decades is the consumption of beverages (sodas) and foods that contain high fructose corn syrup, which is strongly linked to insulin resistance and metabolic syndrome. After high fructose corn syrup (HFCS) ingestion, plasma fructose rises and peaks at 15–30 min which is similar to glucose. At 120 min after HFCS ingestion, plasma fructose levels remain higher than baseline. So unlike fructose, HFCS has a very similar response to glucose in the body as both are 50-50 fructose and glucose.

I di dmention thatI do not eat a very low carb diet and have been advised to even go keto but here is a very good research paper to read on what carbs do:

Volk BM, Kunces LJ, Freidenreich DJ, Kupchak BR, Saenz C, et al. (2014) Effects of Step-Wise Increases in Dietary Carbohydrate on Circulating Saturated Fatty Acids and Palmitoleic Acid in Adults with Metabolic Syndrome. PLOS ONE 9(11): e113605. https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0113605

It seems for many, eating, especially over eating carbs is responsible for high triglyceride, low HDL and high LDL levels, especially dense small particle LDL. Excess carbs over what is used for energy is stored as fat and the liver also converts excesses into triglycerides.
 
Bigtex

Bigtex

VIP Member
Aug 14, 2012
746
1,073
In fact, much of “the world” contrary to much indoctrination, is more of an illusion.
Generally, the countries who consume the most meat per capita, have not only the longer life expectancy rates, but also what’s known as “healthy life expectancy” (HLE)— the avg year of age before developing a chronic disease condition.

Yes, performance and lean composition can be and are achieved on carb and plant based diets, but they aren’t the most optimal for overall health and longevity (HLE).

I just had to look at this one. Per capata, Australians eat more meat than anyone. USA is #2, Isreal #3 and Argentina is #4. With the average life span Australia #11, USA #41 Isreal #9, Argentina #67. Those that live the longest are in Hong Kong, Switzerland and Japan. HLE, Japan #1, France #2, Iceland #3 and Denmark #4. I just don't see that meat has much to do with life span of HLE. All of these countries have excellent health care so it has to be something else. Perhaps we need to start looking at genetics?
 
Bigtex

Bigtex

VIP Member
Aug 14, 2012
746
1,073
Hey America, just keep on eating what you’re eating and getting western “healthcare.”
All they need is exorcise, right?
It’s bigger than that.

“The U.S. is the only developed country in the world that has experienced a decrease in healthy life expectancy in any period since 2010.”



Interesting! What I see here is HLS seem to correlate with GDP per capita (except USA). I see that in studies that compare rich neighborhoods with poor neighborhoods. The lack of any health knowledge, availability of health care, availability of nutrition food choices and exercise all seem to be factors. But the rich kids are just as inactive and their diets suck just as bad.

As for health care. I have been able to travel ALL over the world during my competitive years. My wife is also from Argentina where I met her competing in a world championship. Oh they have nice hospitals and doctors in Buenos Aires but my wife was floored when when saw the Medical Center in Houston, like day and night. I have been all through South America, Europe and even Russia. Our health care here is heads above other countries but does have some serious issues in that it is quickly becoming unaffordable for most. Same with our medication. But I can promise the rest of the world is having the same issues with rising health care prices.

TB, any person who pushes a diet as a cure all and says EXERCISE is not factor is lying to you. There is just too much evidence that people who exercise are healtier, and tend not to over eat and have longer life spans/HLS. How do you think your cavemen got the food they ate? Sitting on the couch ordering food online to be delivered at their cave entrance?

"According to the World Health Organization (WHO),the economic development of countries is what contributes to high rates of inactivity among its citizens. Access to more transportation options, the availability of technology, cultural values, and urbanization are all to blame for the increase in inactivity." " Many people are guilty of not getting enough physical activity, and in many cases, it’s not their fault. It’s a product of the society that the world has created and the demand that this society requires of people. It leaves little energy and time left over for purposeful physical activity."
  • More than a quarter of the world’s adult population (1.4 billion adults) are insufficiently active
  • Worldwide, around 1 in 3 women and 1 in 4 men do not do enough physical activity to stay healthy.
  • Levels of inactivity are twice as high in high-income countries compared to low-income countries,
  • There has been no improvement in global levels of physical activity since 2001C
  • Insufficient activity increased by 5% (from 31.6% to 36.8%) in high-income countries between 2001 and 2016.
Physical inactivity - the single best predictor of early death

As part of my job I teach a basic required course in health and physical fitness. We do basic fitness testing pre- and post. Curls ups, push ups, weight, VO2 max (1 mile walk),and BF. I am absolutely shocked every time at how physically out of shape 18-30 year olds are. This has nothing to do with diet and everything to do with sitting on their asses playing on social media all day. We require them to either do 10,000 steps/day or 100 hour of exercise. Most can't even get that done in a semester. At 65 I get more than 10,000 steps/d and over 400 hours of exercise each week. Hell when I took the course in the 80's I had to run a mile in under 7 minutes. I did it in 6 minutes and worked hard to gt that done.
 
testboner

testboner

VIP Member
Oct 10, 2010
518
361
I just had to look at this one. Per capata, Australians eat more meat than anyone. USA is #2, Isreal #3 and Argentina is #4. With the average life span Australia #11, USA #41 Isreal #9, Argentina #67. Those that live the longest are in Hong Kong, Switzerland and Japan. HLE, Japan #1, France #2, Iceland #3 and Denmark #4. I just don't see that meat has much to do with life span of HLE. All of these countries have excellent health care so it has to be something else. Perhaps we need to start looking at genetics?
Hong Kong actually consumes one of the largest amounts of meat on avg. A lot of the establish data that pops up (particularly on Google seo algorithms) is misleading.
“For reference, Hong Kong consumes more meat per person (695 grams per day or about 1.5 pounds) than any other nation, with a life expectancy of 84.3 years, the world's highest. Meanwhile, India has the second lowest per capita meat consumption in the world, and the average life expectancy is 68.3 years.Aug 7, 2018”
 
testboner

testboner

VIP Member
Oct 10, 2010
518
361
Interesting! What I see here is HLS seem to correlate with GDP per capita (except USA). I see that in studies that compare rich neighborhoods with poor neighborhoods. The lack of any health knowledge, availability of health care, availability of nutrition food choices and exercise all seem to be factors. But the rich kids are just as inactive and their diets suck just as bad.

As for health care. I have been able to travel ALL over the world during my competitive years. My wife is also from Argentina where I met her competing in a world championship. Oh they have nice hospitals and doctors in Buenos Aires but my wife was floored when when saw the Medical Center in Houston, like day and night. I have been all through South America, Europe and even Russia. Our health care here is heads above other countries but does have some serious issues in that it is quickly becoming unaffordable for most. Same with our medication. But I can promise the rest of the world is having the same issues with rising health care prices.

TB, any person who pushes a diet as a cure all and says EXERCISE is not factor is lying to you. There is just too much evidence that people who exercise are healtier, and tend not to over eat and have longer life spans/HLS. How do you think your cavemen got the food they ate? Sitting on the couch ordering food online to be delivered at their cave entrance?

"According to the World Health Organization (WHO),the economic development of countries is what contributes to high rates of inactivity among its citizens. Access to more transportation options, the availability of technology, cultural values, and urbanization are all to blame for the increase in inactivity." " Many people are guilty of not getting enough physical activity, and in many cases, it’s not their fault. It’s a product of the society that the world has created and the demand that this society requires of people. It leaves little energy and time left over for purposeful physical activity."
  • More than a quarter of the world’s adult population (1.4 billion adults) are insufficiently active
  • Worldwide, around 1 in 3 women and 1 in 4 men do not do enough physical activity to stay healthy.
  • Levels of inactivity are twice as high in high-income countries compared to low-income countries,
  • There has been no improvement in global levels of physical activity since 2001C
  • Insufficient activity increased by 5% (from 31.6% to 36.8%) in high-income countries between 2001 and 2016.
Physical inactivity - the single best predictor of early death

As part of my job I teach a basic required course in health and physical fitness. We do basic fitness testing pre- and post. Curls ups, push ups, weight, VO2 max (1 mile walk),and BF. I am absolutely shocked every time at how physically out of shape 18-30 year olds are. This has nothing to do with diet and everything to do with sitting on their asses playing on social media all day. We require them to either do 10,000 steps/day or 100 hour of exercise. Most can't even get that done in a semester. At 65 I get more than 10,000 steps/d and over 400 hours of exercise each week. Hell when I took the course in the 80's I had to run a mile in under 7 minutes. I did it in 6 minutes and worked hard to gt that done.
Quote:
“TB, any person who pushes a diet as a cure all and says EXERCISE is not factor is lying to you. There is just too much evidence that people who exercise are healtier, and tend not to over eat and have longer life spans/HLS. How do you think your cavemen got the food they ate? Sitting on the couch ordering food online to be delivered at their cave entrance?”

I believe the above from you was in response to my posting:
“Hey America, just keep on eating what you’re eating and getting western “healthcare.”
All they need is exorcise, right?
It’s bigger than that.”

To clarify, that was an expression of sarcasm.
 
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