Who is worse, Sanders or Clinton?

[1bigun11]

Yes!! Right next to Ellis Island where My Grandparents came through and were screened and quarantined, AFTER they had applied for entrance and Citizenship . Many of their fellow travelers were denied for medical, past history issues and sent back. They came from a ONCE Great Empire that fell from within.....very similiar conditions that the Land they came to is experiencing now. It really is uncanny.

EVERY sane civilization protects it's borders. You can not be a country without borders, language and culture.

So you would be in favor of granting legal status to Mexicans based on the stringent requirements that historically existed for it at the time the Statue of Liberty was given to us? Basically to be disease free and sign at the "x"?

 

[sam.balia1012]

This is an easy one, it's donald duck trump.

 

[MorganKane]

Where did I say ''force'' American companies to do anything? You been taking your meds MK? I said they're forced OUT of America,

I gave you the link to the wall, I know reading and comprehension isn't your strong suit, try sounding it out..hooked on phonics??!! You got me on the pic!! That sttles it in your mind...there is no wall...there is no wall...there is no wall...

Been in business since Ronald Maximus Reagan was inaugurated and have been on both sides of the bargaining agreement table.

So your answer is the status quo. Great more of the same!! Ross Perot was right about the sucking sound to the southern border.




Therein lies the problem, people want to blame Republicans and this war on the middle class. Look up mean wages during Republican Admins and Democrat Admins. It's pretty striking the difference.

Lol, I don't know how you can blame Republicans for this mess, look at the California union\wage mess.

There are no picture of the wall in the link.
Post one. You posted the original and I correct you.
So now post a picture and back up your claims.
I tried to find a picture of the wall or even something that said they ACTUALLY built a wall but couldnt find it.

You used the word "force". This is from your own post.
"We force them off shore and then they turn around and sell us their goods. "

So what exactly did I claim beside telling you that your picture is fake?
You are big opinion but weak on facts and education.

I would love to see what I said about the border security in any of the posts in this thread.
Can you please tell me.

Why is it that every President including Reagan is against tariffs?
What will the result be to our economy and jobs if we added a tariff.
Some real hypothetical would be really nice for you to post instead of your typical one line emotional crap you normally post.

Do you even know the trade numbers and jobs included?

Good to know another self employed guy.

 

[MorganKane]

You can't effectively run a social welfare state and have open borders at the same time. Europe and Scandinavia are learning that now, as are we

Parts of Europe is screwed.
They are getting what they deserve.

 

[MorganKane]

So you would be in favor of granting legal status to Mexicans based on the stringent requirements that historically existed for it at the time the Statue of Liberty was given to us? Basically to be disease free and sign at the "x"?

Different time, different situation.

We do need to secure the border.
Wall or not doesnt matter.
I think people are too focused on the word WALL and not the real issue of securing it.
personally I dont care if its a wall, landmines or zombie guarding it. Someone much smarter than me can figure it out.

We need to redo our immigration law. It is horrible as it sits today.
No amnesty discussion before the border is secured and laws are fixed.
When thats done we can discuss amnesty. The current amnesty plan is already a failure.

We need a guest worker program that actually works.
This country will fail without labor from the south.
its already proven in parts of Alabama.

Illegal immigration can be fixed relatively easy (on paper).
The actual s will be a bit harder to fix but it starts with a real plan to do so.
The last 4 administrations hasnt done shit to solve it.
Trumps wall and deportation of 11 million illegals is nothing but political pandering.

 

[RAIDEN]

And you do not see the same thing happening in the context of immigration? The harder you make it to come over the more risk it carried and this will drive the price up for the cartels bringing illegals over. More money for them isn't what we're trying to accomplish. You need to address the actual problems instead of putting bandaids on a severed arm. Getting rid of the cartels, helping improve the Mexican economy (which would also help strengthen ours), etc will do more to slow the flow of illegal immigration than any wall that idiot Trump can dream up of.

In that case, maintain and control the bleeding, THEN stitch up and stop the blood flow. EMS/EMT 101

First action taken is to stop the influx of illegals, prevent them from spilling over the border e.g. wall, military on the border. Then, come up with a plan to address the ones already here.

Again, what is so wrong with enforcing our laws already on the books?

 

[RAIDEN]

Someone brought up starting a trade war with Mexico? WTF! We've been in a trade war with them for years and years, if not decades. Only problem is that we've been on the losing end of the war.

Trump has said himself that he will continue to do trade with these countries, BUT, it has to be fair. Not one sided where we get fukked. What is wrong with that?

 

[tommyguns2]

And you do not see the same thing happening in the context of immigration? The harder you make it to come over the more risk it carried and this will drive the price up for the cartels bringing illegals over. More money for them isn't what we're trying to accomplish. You need to address the actual problems instead of putting bandaids on a severed arm. Getting rid of the cartels, helping improve the Mexican economy (which would also help strengthen ours), etc will do more to slow the flow of illegal immigration than any wall that idiot Trump can dream up of.

Doc, I'm not opposed to an "all of the above" strategy. But right now I don't believe a word that either the Dems or the GOP say about immigration. I think they're both lying through their teeth. The political will to stop the flow isn't there, period.

For the GOP, every candidate but Trump was willing to just ignore the entire issue this election cycle until Trump prevented that from happening. That's the one thing I'll give him credit for. I don't support him, but I understand where a lot of his support is coming from. Lots of lower middle class US citizens don't feel that either the Dem or GOP establishments are listening to them or give a crap about them.

On the Dem side, they are doing everything in their power, IMO, to undermine the laws presently on our books to create incentives. Here is just one example of documents found in FOIA requests showing US taxpayer dollars going toward advertisements in Mexico and instructions to the Mexico embassy to encourage food stamp benefits to non-citizens.

http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-...ng-u-s-food-stamp-program-for-illegal-aliens/

http://www.scribd.com/doc/137989529/No-Need-to-Declare-Status

 

[woodswise]

Doc, I'm not opposed to an "all of the above" strategy. But right now I don't believe a word that either the Dems or the GOP say about immigration. I think they're both lying through their teeth. The political will to stop the flow isn't there, period.

For the GOP, every candidate but Trump was willing to just ignore the entire issue this election cycle until Trump prevented that from happening. That's the one thing I'll give him credit for. I don't support him, but I understand where a lot of his support is coming from. Lots of lower middle class US citizens don't feel that either the Dem or GOP establishments are listening to them or give a crap about them.

On the Dem side, they are doing everything in their power, IMO, to undermine the laws presently on our books to create incentives. Here is just one example of documents found in FOIA requests showing US taxpayer dollars going toward advertisements in Mexico and instructions to the Mexico embassy to encourage food stamp benefits to non-citizens.

http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-...ng-u-s-food-stamp-program-for-illegal-aliens/

http://www.scribd.com/doc/137989529/No-Need-to-Declare-Status

Tommyguns, I don't see where the information was disseminated in Mexico. The article says it was for Mexican Consulates to give to their citizens in the US, and the flyer on SNAP (foodstamps) is clearly directed to legal immigrants, not illegal immigrants.

Can you back up your allegations by pointing to the documents or the article that talks about benefits for illegals or that are being distributed in Mexico?

To the best of my knowledge no US officials are promoting SNAP benefits to illegals, and the same is true for state government providing WIC benefits, they are available to legal immigrants but not illegals.

I realize the Republican hate machine is promoting the claim that illegals are coming here and getting foodstamps and WIC benefits, but I have yet to see credible evidence of that. The illegals I am aware of are working and using a fake social security number and paying taxes without receiving any benefits in return.

 

[Docd187123]

In that case, maintain and control the bleeding, THEN stitch up and stop the blood flow. EMS/EMT 101

First action taken is to stop the influx of illegals, prevent them from spilling over the border e.g. wall, military on the border. Then, come up with a plan to address the ones already here.

Again, what is so wrong with enforcing our laws already on the books?

You will never stop the influx if illegal immigration with a wall. It will hardly make a dent in the problem except for putting more money in the pocket of the cartels.

Can you please point me to where I said anything about enforcing laws already on the books?

 

[Docd187123]

Doc, I'm not opposed to an "all of the above" strategy. But right now I don't believe a word that either the Dems or the GOP say about immigration. I think they're both lying through their teeth. The political will to stop the flow isn't there, period.

For the GOP, every candidate but Trump was willing to just ignore the entire issue this election cycle until Trump prevented that from happening. That's the one thing I'll give him credit for. I don't support him, but I understand where a lot of his support is coming from. Lots of lower middle class US citizens don't feel that either the Dem or GOP establishments are listening to them or give a crap about them.

On the Dem side, they are doing everything in their power, IMO, to undermine the laws presently on our books to create incentives. Here is just one example of documents found in FOIA requests showing US taxpayer dollars going toward advertisements in Mexico and instructions to the Mexico embassy to encourage food stamp benefits to non-citizens.

http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-...ng-u-s-food-stamp-program-for-illegal-aliens/

http://www.scribd.com/doc/137989529/No-Need-to-Declare-Status

So you allowed Trump to play you into believing this to be one of the forefront issues that need to be addressed? Don't misconstrue my words into thinking I'm saying this is a problem that doesn't need to be addressed bc I'm not saying that but it's pretty funny how Trump can play on the emotions and feelings of ppl and get them to "forget" about other real issues that need addressing.

 

[1bigun11]

So you would be in favor of granting legal status to Mexicans based on the stringent requirements that historically existed for it at the time the Statue of Liberty was given to us? Basically to be disease free and sign at the "x"?

Different time, different situation.

We do need to secure the border.
Wall or not doesnt matter.
I think people are too focused on the word WALL and not the real issue of securing it.
personally I dont care if its a wall, landmines or zombie guarding it. Someone much smarter than me can figure it out.

We need to redo our immigration law. It is horrible as it sits today.
No amnesty discussion before the border is secured and laws are fixed.
When thats done we can discuss amnesty. The current amnesty plan is already a failure.

We need a guest worker program that actually works.
This country will fail without labor from the south.
its already proven in parts of Alabama.

Illegal immigration can be fixed relatively easy (on paper).
The actual s will be a bit harder to fix but it starts with a real plan to do so.
The last 4 administrations hasnt done shit to solve it.
Trumps wall and deportation of 11 million illegals is nothing but political pandering.

I agree with you. The point of my post about being disease free and signing at the "x" was because conservatives are so often heard beating the drums of "original intent" whenever a liberal talks about changing times and needs.

Not that Democrats aren't guilty of the same type of hypocrisy.

Which is why people need to stop pledging allegiance to political parties, and start thinking for themselves in the middle.