So....when did macros stop being important?

[testboner]

Actually, it doesn't matter when or how many times you eat.

Your body needs X amount of calories to sustain bodyweight.

Whether you eat it all in one meal or eat it throughout the course of several meals, the end result will be the same.

What CAN change is your metabolism. Your metabolism can speed up when you eat. Even then, it doesn't change it to a point that you would see a big enough difference in a short period of time. You would adjust your TDEE to compensate for an increased metabolism if it indeed changed.

At this point, we can go back to the original fact that if you consume more calories than your body uses, you will gain weight and if you consume less calories than your body needs, you will lose weight.

The only variable that would change is the amount of calories needed to sustain your weight.

A quick link to a current study that has proved the old school bro science as inaccurate. HERE
I won't even throw in my own experiences from the past 3 decades because that could be biased.

The link you shared isn’t about what we’re discussing. It’s summary conclusion is:

“We conclude that increasing meal frequency from three to six per day has no significant effect on 24-h fat oxidation, but may increase hunger and the desire to eat.”

And that’s correct. More frequent eating does in fact increase hunger — primarily from insulin spikes and drops, as well as consistent stimulation of ghrelin, a hunger hormone.

The study is refuting that frequent ingestion boosts metabolism and subsequent weight loss / fat oxidization.
And that’s correct.
It’s focus isn’t on REDUCING meals for the many benefits it illicit’s.

 

[BackAtIt]

“We conclude that increasing meal frequency from three to six per day has no significant effect on 24-h fat oxidation, but may increase hunger and the desire to eat.”

And that’s correct. More frequent eating does in fact increase hunger — primarily from insulin spikes and drops, as well as consistent stimulation of ghrelin, a hunger hormone

That makes sense....I guess it can have some drawback too....I remember watching an vid on Heath and one on Cutler....Both were talking about how much they HATED food/eating....Of course they were slamming down those 10k calories as well....That is an huge amount!....

I, personally, years ago, tried to eat 8 times a day....Could only get 6 times in on any given day....And I wasn't even close to 10k's of calories....I did however have an increased desire for food....It didn't effect me the way Heath and Cuts were describing it....Anyway, carry on!....

.

 

[BackAtIt]

First let me tell you about how my wife did it. She managed a gym and was a personal trainer. Took food to her job, then took a bus to a gym across town in the afternoon to train with other competitive BBer's. The gym sponsored her and the country provided doctors and other things she needed to represent the country. We aren't that lucky here.

Mine was very simple. My boss actually took pride in my accomplishments. Not many times a school has a gootball coach and strength coach that is a world champion. So starting in December when football was over and off season started I started getting ready for contests. Got up at 4am, ate a quick meal, drove to work and was on the job by 6am. Usually ate again when I got there. I did not eat 8 meals a day and instead at 6. So ever 3 hours of so I ate or drank a supplement. By 6pm I was at the gym which was close to the school. We all trained for 90 minutes to 2 hours depending on the day. Then off to eat and home to bed by 10pm. I ate the largest amount of calories for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Drank a lot of weight gain/protein drinks, and protein before bed. On contest day I took off Friday and either drove or flew to where the contest was in time to weight in. Usually left Saturday night or Sunday morning and was back to work by Monday morning talking to my boss about the trophy I just got. My boss even insisted that the Fridays I missed be counted as professional development days. So I managed to keep most all of my sick days. In powerlifting I only worked out Monday (Squats),Tuesday (bench press) and Friday (deadlift). The international contests were more challenging. Usually those were in the summer or if I was lucky, spring break. I was given NO MONEY by anyone to pay for food, drugs, supplements, travel or entry fees. Sleep, you get what you can when you can. Short naps work wonders.

All athletes make some serious compromises to do what they love doing. It takes lots of dedication and a huge amount of sacrifices. When they rest of the world is out having a good time, I was at home in bed trying to recover. Instead of going out on dates, I was married to the gym. Lost a ton of girl friends over it. It was cool dating me at first because people with muscles and strength are very unique. But after a while the "who are you seeing at the gym" shit starts and then the ultimatum......"its either me of the gym." SEE YA! And all for what......a lot of money being spent and a closet of trophies.

Thank you for the reply, ST!....I figured u would only be doing compound movements....That's what was strummed into me when I began training years ago!....That, and to eat meat and potatoes!....Later on I began to drink the sup drinks....Again, thanks for sharing, brah!....

.

 

[BigSwolePump]

“Actually, it doesn't matter when or how many times you eat.”
It in fact makes significant difference — a universe of difference.
Your thinking it doesn’t without any experience virtually equates to thinking I don’t even exist. Why? Because I’ve done it / do it as do countless others who reap the benefits of OMAD and other IT styles.

LOL no experience? I am a former competitor in powerlifting as well as bodybuilding. Former as in no longer competing but doing it for the past 30 years. Likely longer than the majority here have been alive lol. Going into other credentials like personal training and coaching that I have done over the past decades aside, I have plenty personal experience.

We can agree to disagree and I am completely fine with that.

 

[BigSwolePump]

The link you shared isn’t about what we’re discussing. It’s summary conclusion is:

“We conclude that increasing meal frequency from three to six per day has no significant effect on 24-h fat oxidation, but may increase hunger and the desire to eat.”

And that’s correct. More frequent eating does in fact increase hunger — primarily from insulin spikes and drops, as well as consistent stimulation of ghrelin, a hunger hormone.

The study is refuting that frequent ingestion boosts metabolism and subsequent weight loss / fat oxidization.
And that’s correct.
It’s focus isn’t on REDUCING meals for the many benefits it illicit’s.

I shared the link because you said that eating more frequently would yield better body composition results than eating less frequently and it proves that it doesn't.

I saw it as very relevant considering it shows that eating more frequently doesn't boost metabolism or weight loss.

We seem to agree now so maybe I misunderstood your argument.

 

[testboner]

I shared the link because you said that eating more frequently would yield better body composition results than eating less frequently and it proves that it doesn't.

I saw it as very relevant considering it shows that eating more frequently doesn't boost metabolism or weight loss.

We seem to agree now so maybe I misunderstood your argument.

“ I shared the link because you said that eating more frequently would yield better body composition results than eating less frequently and it proves that it doesn't.”

No, I said eating OMAD over a one to two hour period yields better results (composition wise and favorable metabolism) than eating the same exact items and quantity food spread out over a 12+ hour eating window (numerous meals through the entire day).

 

[testboner]

LOL no experience? I am a former competitor in powerlifting as well as bodybuilding. Former as in no longer competing but doing it for the past 30 years. Likely longer than the majority here have been alive lol. Going into other credentials like personal training and coaching that I have done over the past decades aside, I have plenty personal experience.

We can agree to disagree and I am completely fine with that.

I’m 54 myself, and not a competitor, but been in the lifestyle in many facets, including close connections with competitors (for 25-30 years) since late teen years.
The past 10+ years in particular have been most enlightening as to how much dietary / nutritional norms within the lifestyle (and avg common folk) that have always been considered “the way,” have been way off.

 

[gunslinger]

I’m not contesting the existence of your pet law. Just trying to explain that it doesn’t apply to diet in the manner in which you seem to be dogmatic about.
A calorie is a calorie is not correct. In the most basic way of example, a carb calorie and a fat calorie will trigger differing responses when consumed. As those tally up, the amount of body weight gained (or not) and the sort of body composition they’ll result in differ greatly.

Look at this shit. Someone fucking gets it!

 

[charger69]

Hi Bro
IT (from years of personal use) will in fact yield the favored results as I described. Any studies published that differ would only be from those who’ve never done it and experienced the results firsthand — in other words — studies don’t mean shit when they contradict real world results.
Try looking up the establishment goons studies on the results of AAS, and compare their findings with your real world results.
In my post you’re referencing, the example of Person #1 and Person #2’ I described, are in fact both Me — I’ve done both and know the results. Also known multiple others who exampled it to me before I ever did it myself.
All of my diatribe here in response to you isn’t necessary though, because “studies” don’t all refute my example..... even if all you care about are studies instead of real life use and experience.

As an aside (and likely MORE fuel for controversy); if a person wants to simply lose body weight, then fasting is far preferable for weight loss than reduced calories. Reason being; reducing calories winds up reducing energy requirements (reduces metabolism) whereas fasting will boost metabolism from an increase of norepinephrine levels.
“But but.... you’ll lose muscle!!” Not BEFORE your body first burns through its glucose (and reserves / glycogen) and body fat.

I think that you are referring to studies vs bro science. Studies should be controlled however you need to read the details to understand them. Example: study shows working out two times a day increases muscle content. It can be true if you take someone who hasn’t worked out before... any type of workout will increase muscle content. Now, if you add a control group in their... now you can make observations and conclusions.
I have been and am still competing at 54. I do know a little on manipulating the weight . You say that you are the example of the above. One thing that I have learned over the years is when I do an expirement on myself, I often forget about some details that I later realize when I can’t explain it. .... then it makes sense.
I would also like to correct your statement of

But but.... you’ll lose muscle!!” Not BEFORE your body first burns through its glucose (and reserves / glycogen) and body fat.

This is incorrect. Your body isn’t selective of what it burns. It goes to the easiest thing to find. If this were true, anyone who was overweight would probably have very large muscles upon weight loss.
This is where AAS comes in and preserves the muscle where fat loss is desired.
I have gone from 240 to 165 naturally and competed. You do not just lose fat first.

As far as your examples- I am sure that there are details that are missing that an experienced individual will say- that explains it right there. I will almost guarantee on the one meal a day- not all of the calories were counted. That is the most common error. They remember the meal that took 15 minutes to eat, but not the candy bar, donut, etc that took 30
Seconds. I gave an exampl earlier... a person ate 3x the amount of calories that they thought they did.


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[testboner]

I think that you are referring to studies vs bro science. Studies should be controlled however you need to read the details to understand them. Example: study shows working out two times a day increases muscle content. It can be true if you take someone who hasn’t worked out before... any type of workout will increase muscle content. Now, if you add a control group in their... now you can make observations and conclusions.
I have been and am still competing at 54. I do know a little on manipulating the weight . You say that you are the example of the above. One thing that I have learned over the years is when I do an expirement on myself, I often forget about some details that I later realize when I can’t explain it. .... then it makes sense.
I would also like to correct your statement of

But but.... you’ll lose muscle!!” Not BEFORE your body first burns through its glucose (and reserves / glycogen) and body fat.

This is incorrect. Your body isn’t selective of what it burns. It goes to the easiest thing to find. If this were true, anyone who was overweight would probably have very large muscles upon weight loss.
This is where AAS comes in and preserves the muscle where fat loss is desired.
I have gone from 240 to 165 naturally and competed. You do not just lose fat first.

As far as your examples- I am sure that there are details that are missing that an experienced individual will say- that explains it right there. I will almost guarantee on the one meal a day- not all of the calories were counted. That is the most common error. They remember the meal that took 15 minutes to eat, but not the candy bar, donut, etc that took 30
Seconds. I gave an exampl earlier... a person ate 3x the amount of calories that they thought they did.


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You’re free to engage, question, and wonder about the basis of my personal applicable experience, and overall research and knowledge. But as a general rule, please try and refrain from attempting any dogmatic corrections based on establishment studies.
Hopefully you’re aware of the various study methods and how skewed a majority are, and how few are actually sufficient controlled interventional studies.

I’m not speaking only from experience with my years of bio hacking personal application of dietary and peds manipulation, but also from some sources who not only have and do participate in research and studies, but do a significant amount of research themselves.

I’m not blasting out simple personal “opinions.” Some of these individuals include: Dr Jason Fung (a nephrologist, and a nutrition researcher), Dr Shawn Baker, author of The Carnivore Diet, and started MeatRx.com
Dr Paul Saladino (nutrition researcher and author of The Carnivore Code), Dr Ken Berry (a family practitioner for 20 years, nutrition researcher and author of Lies My Doctor Told Me), and many others who’s research disputes MUCH of the standard medical industrial complex narrative.

 

[testboner]

In addition,
If all I did was sell my soul and beliefs to establishment studies, I’d have never become who I am, experience the various results I have, nor continue to fly in the face of what is and isn’t supposedly possible, or healthy.
Imagine if you only trusted the established studies with regard to effects and benefits of peds. You’d be on 100mg test very 2-4 weeks, you’d be on BP meds, statins, and on and on, rather than learning to control effects and sides with dietary manipulations.
The nonexperimental, institutionally captive, textbook only individuals miss out on a universe of potential.

 

[BackAtIt]

But but.... you’ll lose muscle!!” Not BEFORE your body first burns through its glucose (and reserves / glycogen) and body fat. This is incorrect. Your body isn’t selective of what it burns. It goes to the easiest thing to find. If this were true, anyone who was overweight would probably have very large muscles upon weight loss.


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This point use to be an prevelant talking jest all the time....Can someone break down the science on this into layman's terms so the people like me can understand the why's of it?...Try not to make it pages upon pages and paragraphs upon paragraphs, please!....Just the gist of it will do....I think this is where a lot of folks get skewed in this game....U would automatically think that the body would go for the stored fat FIRST (why did it store the fat to begin with?), right?....But it doesn't!....Hence, the skinny fat syndrome!...Anyway, can someone elaborate, yet, keep it simple?....

.