So....when did macros stop being important?

[testboner]

F'ing A you are finally learning something. My job here is done.

?
Correct me if I’ve got you wrong. Based on your LAW of thermodynamics boner, you were advocating that “a calorie is a calorie.”
Then you went a bit wacky defensive when I expressed that in fact a calorie is a calorie is NOT correct.

 

[SAD]

TB, what exactly is your body doing with all the extra calories? Are you putting on muscle at an absurd rate? Is your body temp constantly 105°? Do you just poop out the extra cals that you don’t need?

Let’s assume you can eat more calories than you need and not store them...where are they going?

 

[macgyver]

With regard to the “Law” of thermodynamics — as pertaining to diet (“a calorie is a calorie”), it appears you’ve an incomplete understanding.
Doesn’t affect me one way nor another. You do diet according to “Law” all you want, and complicate your results.
As for me, I’ll continue to be an outlaw and enjoy results without concern for calorie counting and so on.

Read your link and you missed what I said earlier. I wont dispute that 'technically' a calorie is not a calorie. BUT, for functional and practical purposes, it can be treated as such. In the same way we can use Newtonain mechanics model of the universe to calculate a moon landing, but know truly it is an incorrect model of the universe as it breaks down at the sub-atomic level.

My statement that a 'calorie is a calorie' is for practical purposes. Given within the ranges that we can reasonably track, small variables such as thermic values become meaningless.

I used the example of measuring a foot ball field with a yardstick and then measuring the last yard with a micrometer. It is kind of pointless from a practical standpoint.

And that is the whole point....in the real world, day to day, the things we can observe and alter or manipulate, we can treat things as a 'calorie is a calorie'. It has been shown many times, over and over to be true. Maybe invivo experiments will show otherwise about cell metabolism, but this thread is all about PRACTICAL advice and lifestyle.

Respect the very well thought out exchange of info. Love to have a good chat over a few beers one day, I am sure we would probably find quite a bit of truth in both our experiences.

Peace and respect!

 

[testboner]

Read your link and you missed what I said earlier. I wont dispute that 'technically' a calorie is not a calorie. BUT, for functional and practical purposes, it can be treated as such. In the same way we can use Newtonain mechanics model of the universe to calculate a moon landing, but know truly it is an incorrect model of the universe as it breaks down at the sub-atomic level.

My statement that a 'calorie is a calorie' is for practical purposes. Given within the ranges that we can reasonably track, small variables such as thermic values become meaningless.

I used the example of measuring a foot ball field with a yardstick and then measuring the last yard with a micrometer. It is kind of pointless from a practical standpoint.

And that is the whole point....in the real world, day to day, the things we can observe and alter or manipulate, we can treat things as a 'calorie is a calorie'. It has been shown many times, over and over to be true. Maybe invivo experiments will show otherwise about cell metabolism, but this thread is all about PRACTICAL advice and lifestyle.

Respect the very well thought out exchange of info. Love to have a good chat over a few beers one day, I am sure we would probably find quite a bit of truth in both our experiences.

Peace and respect!

Understood with regard to your context.

 

[BigSwolePump]

This thread is more pages than I can stand to read but I wanted to throw this out there.

It doesn't matter what you eat, if your only goal is to gain or lose weight.
If you eat more calories than you body burns in a day, you are going to gain weight. If you eat less calories than you body needs to maintain current bodyweight, you will lose weight. Whether you eat cake or you eat chicken, this will work for anyone. It doesn't matter who or what you are. This is scientific fact.

With that said, the "macros" that you consume definitely make a difference in what you are losing or gaining.
Eating the proper amount of protein is essential in keeping and adding muscle mass.
If you don't eat enough protein but add or subtract calories from your diet based on you TDEE, you will lose muscle which is a bad idea regardless of your goals. There is no two ways about it.

 

[testboner]

TB, what exactly is your body doing with all the extra calories? Are you putting on muscle at an absurd rate? Is your body temp constantly 105°? Do you just poop out the extra cals that you don’t need?

Let’s assume you can eat more calories than you need and not store them...where are they going?

Metabolism. Burning fat, gaining muscle, translating to energy and strength.
There’s a lot in play with such a way of eating (carnivore).
Unless or until you experience it for a disciplined lengthy period, you may find its characteristics and pronounced effects difficult to understand.

 

[Bigtex]

ST,

First, allow me to acknowledge my deepest gratitude toward u for taking the time to discus this with me....It's definitely a rare moment for a layman, such as myself, to be able to talk person to person with an reputable champion as yourself....Again, thankyou!....

Like u said, if it was easy, everyone would do it!....Would u mind laying exactly out what u would do in that 12hr work period (full time job) in regards to eating?....Were u eating every two hours on the job?...Or were u going longer spans?....I have a feeling your boss would not allow u to eat every two hours, right?....How many hours did u sleep after u were off from work?....There would be 12 left in the day, correct?....How long would u workout?....Did u isolate and workout every day or break it up into groups thru out the week?....Sorry to ask this of u brah....Just as curious as a beaver....

First let me tell you about how my wife did it. She managed a gym and was a personal trainer. Took food to her job, then took a bus to a gym across town in the afternoon to train with other competitive BBer's. The gym sponsored her and the country provided doctors and other things she needed to represent the country. We aren't that lucky here.

Mine was very simple. My boss actually took pride in my accomplishments. Not many times a school has a gootball coach and strength coach that is a world champion. So starting in December when football was over and off season started I started getting ready for contests. Got up at 4am, ate a quick meal, drove to work and was on the job by 6am. Usually ate again when I got there. I did not eat 8 meals a day and instead at 6. So ever 3 hours of so I ate or drank a supplement. By 6pm I was at the gym which was close to the school. We all trained for 90 minutes to 2 hours depending on the day. Then off to eat and home to bed by 10pm. I ate the largest amount of calories for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Drank a lot of weight gain/protein drinks, and protein before bed. On contest day I took off Friday and either drove or flew to where the contest was in time to weight in. Usually left Saturday night or Sunday morning and was back to work by Monday morning talking to my boss about the trophy I just got. My boss even insisted that the Fridays I missed be counted as professional development days. So I managed to keep most all of my sick days. In powerlifting I only worked out Monday (Squats),Tuesday (bench press) and Friday (deadlift). The international contests were more challenging. Usually those were in the summer or if I was lucky, spring break. I was given NO MONEY by anyone to pay for food, drugs, supplements, travel or entry fees. Sleep, you get what you can when you can. Short naps work wonders.

All athletes make some serious compromises to do what they love doing. It takes lots of dedication and a huge amount of sacrifices. When they rest of the world is out having a good time, I was at home in bed trying to recover. Instead of going out on dates, I was married to the gym. Lost a ton of girl friends over it. It was cool dating me at first because people with muscles and strength are very unique. But after a while the "who are you seeing at the gym" shit starts and then the ultimatum......"its either me of the gym." SEE YA! And all for what......a lot of money being spent and a closet of trophies.

 

[testboner]

This thread is more pages than I can stand to read but I wanted to throw this out there.

It doesn't matter what you eat, if your only goal is to gain or lose weight.
If you eat more calories than you body burns in a day, you are going to gain weight. If you eat less calories than you body needs to maintain current bodyweight, you will lose weight. Whether you eat cake or you eat chicken, this will work for anyone. It doesn't matter who or what you are. This is scientific fact.

With that said, the "macros" that you consume definitely make a difference in what you are losing or gaining.
Eating the proper amount of protein is essential in keeping and adding muscle mass.
If you don't eat enough protein but add or subtract calories from your diet based on you TDEE, you will lose muscle which is a bad idea regardless of your goals. There is no two ways about it.

Correct in the most basic sense.

However there is more to consider. Things like frequency of eating/consuming and the associated response of insulin level and other hormonal responses, metabolic rate, digestion/assimilation, and so on.

Example: Person #1 consumes specific foods every couple of hours throughout a 12hr+ eating period in their day. They do this for two weeks let’s say.
Person #2 consumes the identical foods and quantity but completes it as an OMAD (one meal a day) within let’s say a one or two hour period/eating window.
When the two weeks are up, not only will the 2 subjects body composition differ, but their amount of weight will differ as well.

 

[charger69]

Correct in the most basic sense.

However there is more to consider. Things like frequency of eating/consuming and the associated response of insulin level and other hormonal responses, metabolic rate, digestion/assimilation, and so on.

Example: Person #1 consumes specific foods every couple of hours throughout a 12hr+ eating period in their day. They do this for two weeks let’s say.
Person #2 consumes the identical foods and quantity but completes it as an OMAD (one meal a day) within let’s say a one or two hour period/eating window.
When the two weeks are up, not only will the 2 subjects body composition differ, but their amount of weight will differ as well.

I think that if you read up on studies of intermittent fasting you will see that it refutes your statement above. I am not an expert but I have started investigating.
With all of this being said, there are medical conditions that will increase or decrease the calorie consumption. This is still in line with the first law of thermodynamics, but I wanted to mention it.
The average person says that they may eat one meal a day, but if you actually keep track, there are a lot of little things they eat that they do not count. Oh boy do they add up.
I had one person tell me how much they ate a day and they gained weight. The stated the food that they ate and it was less than 1000 calories a day. When I added everything up, they were well over 3000.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[testboner]

I think that if you read up on studies of intermittent fasting you will see that it refutes your statement above. I am not an expert but I have started investigating.
With all of this being said, there are medical conditions that will increase or decrease the calorie consumption. This is still in line with the first law of thermodynamics, but I wanted to mention it.
The average person says that they may eat one meal a day, but if you actually keep track, there are a lot of little things they eat that they do not count. Oh boy do they add up.
I had one person tell me how much they ate a day and they gained weight. The stated the food that they ate and it was less than 1000 calories a day. When I added everything up, they were well over 3000.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi Bro
IT (from years of personal use) will in fact yield the favored results as I described. Any studies published that differ would only be from those who’ve never done it and experienced the results firsthand — in other words — studies don’t mean shit when they contradict real world results.
Try looking up the establishment goons studies on the results of AAS, and compare their findings with your real world results.
In my post you’re referencing, the example of Person #1 and Person #2’ I described, are in fact both Me — I’ve done both and know the results. Also known multiple others who exampled it to me before I ever did it myself.
All of my diatribe here in response to you isn’t necessary though, because “studies” don’t all refute my example..... even if all you care about are studies instead of real life use and experience.

As an aside (and likely MORE fuel for controversy); if a person wants to simply lose body weight, then fasting is far preferable for weight loss than reduced calories. Reason being; reducing calories winds up reducing energy requirements (reduces metabolism) whereas fasting will boost metabolism from an increase of norepinephrine levels.
“But but.... you’ll lose muscle!!” Not BEFORE your body first burns through its glucose (and reserves / glycogen) and body fat.

 

[BigSwolePump]

Correct in the most basic sense.

However there is more to consider. Things like frequency of eating/consuming and the associated response of insulin level and other hormonal responses, metabolic rate, digestion/assimilation, and so on.

Example: Person #1 consumes specific foods every couple of hours throughout a 12hr+ eating period in their day. They do this for two weeks let’s say.
Person #2 consumes the identical foods and quantity but completes it as an OMAD (one meal a day) within let’s say a one or two hour period/eating window.
When the two weeks are up, not only will the 2 subjects body composition differ, but their amount of weight will differ as well.

Actually, it doesn't matter when or how many times you eat.

Your body needs X amount of calories to sustain bodyweight.

Whether you eat it all in one meal or eat it throughout the course of several meals, the end result will be the same.

What CAN change is your metabolism. Your metabolism can speed up when you eat. Even then, it doesn't change it to a point that you would see a big enough difference in a short period of time. You would adjust your TDEE to compensate for an increased metabolism if it indeed changed.

At this point, we can go back to the original fact that if you consume more calories than your body uses, you will gain weight and if you consume less calories than your body needs, you will lose weight.

The only variable that would change is the amount of calories needed to sustain your weight.

A quick link to a current study that has proved the old school bro science as inaccurate. HERE
I won't even throw in my own experiences from the past 3 decades because that could be biased.

 

[testboner]

Actually, it doesn't matter when or how many times you eat.

Your body needs X amount of calories to sustain bodyweight.

Whether you eat it all in one meal or eat it throughout the course of several meals, the end result will be the same.


What CAN change is your metabolism. Your metabolism can speed up when you eat. Even then, it doesn't change it to a point that you would see a big enough difference in a short period of time. You would adjust your TDEE to compensate for an increased metabolism if it indeed changed.

At this point, we can go back to the original fact that if you consume more calories than your body uses, you will gain weight and if you consume less calories than your body needs, you will lose weight.

The only variable that would change is the amount of calories needed to sustain your weight.

A quick link to a current study that has proved the old school bro science as inaccurate. HERE
I won't even throw in my own experiences from the past 3 decades because that could be biased.

“Actually, it doesn't matter when or how many times you eat.”
It in fact makes significant difference — a universe of difference.
Your thinking it doesn’t without any experience virtually equates to thinking I don’t even exist. Why? Because I’ve done it / do it as do countless others who reap the benefits of OMAD and other IT styles.