Lat pull down

[ketsugo]

Amen..................





QUOTE=deadweight;72721]i def agree with everything u just mentioned..Save the secoundary lifts for later...Those that start lifting need to first build a soild foundation..Andthe only way to start is with your basics..Nothing in this world builds a foundation like your basics and as u mentioned ketsugo...Its been proven to work.If u look at most powerlifters or weightlifters most of them are thick simply because they stick with mainly the basics...And even your pro BBs when they start a mass faze they seem to go back to the basic roots which is barbell work /basic training..Hmmm I wonder why?...The answer is simple, basic training will pack on the size which = thickness. Another tip for those that are just getting their feet wet in this sport.....Its not how much u do...Its what u do....Facts are no one needs excessive reps to beat down a muscle group...Actually a large muscle group such as your chess only needs just a few sets to rip it down...Those that ask me questions like...Im doing everything u siad but im not getting the size ...The very first thing i ask them..How many sets are u doing?...Most the time they are over trained...Nothing will grow if u stay over trained...I give this advice to all those that are looking to pack on size when it comes down to training....Its 40 persent training and 60 percent enjoying your gains...Which means enjoy your gains instead of over training ...When it comes down to size less is much better...but for some reason most people feel the need to over due it...they just cant sit back and enjoy the slow progress....dw[/QUOTE]

 

[BrotherIron]

Behind the neck movements aren't as bad as most would have you believe. What causes problems for so many is that they have poor shoulder flexibility and therefore behind the neck works hurts them or in time causes an injury. If you work on shoulder flexibility you will find that you can perform behind the neck pulldowns, behind the neck presses, etc.

As for building lat thickness and width, try bent over rows (with a pronated and supinated grip), kroc rows, etc.

If you're pulling (deadlifting) and want to increase your pull you need to incorporate lower back work like GM's, reverse hypers, hypers, etc.

 

[PillarofBalance]

Just wanted to bump this post. The ONLY truly great advice, better than anything i can say, cuz its been proven over decades. If you want a wide, massive back then you need to focus on doing just a few basic compound , freeweight exersizes. NO Elaborate or new fangled set combos or routines, just few heavy basics. In most schools n circles pulldowns just dont cut it. Barbell rows and chins to stretch out scapula. Save pulldowns for warmups, pumps and variations. Rows for thickness and chins for width. Close grip stretches lats and serratuss, wide grip stretches scapula and shoulder girdle. You should do both. No need for one arm isolation moves yet. The power moves like deadweight stated will contribute not only to building the traps, but develop fast twich power , having many positive benefits. Once you reach a certain level, VARIATION will be the key. Fixed arm pushdowns and pullovers will later have a place in your routine, but not now. FOCUS ON MASS TRAINING WITH BASICS. Barbells and the chin station is where you begin.
Pulldown and machines say nay! Save them for later

I agree with that, especially the bold piece. My back didn't start to widen until I started doing those religiously. And I noticed after a while, it felt like my shoulder blades were being stretched away from each other. Its also what helped me develop the mind muscle connection so I could really focus on getting the strongest contraction possible.

 

[rocco]

I do pulldowns to the front all the way down to my chest and pause and sqeeze shoulder blades together after doing chinups of course.

 

[rocco-x]

If you want to build then you need to do chins- Pulldowns are for people that are too weak to do chins, but there are ways to gain power. Do wide grips and close grips. If I do pulldowns its for a finishing move. To get a big strong back- Strive for heavy weighted chins- I tie 100 pound plates to my waiste
ALso barbell and dumbell rows - heavy 8-12 reps, I do rack deads too to emphasize the upper back.

Heres a 12 week thing I recently did:

Weeks 1-6
Hypers 3x 25
ALTERNATE : Barbell Bent Row – wk 1, 4 sets 8 reps 275/ wk 2, 4x 10 275/ wk 3 4x8 295
Wk 4 x10 295/ wk 5 3x 8 (315) / wk 6 3x6 (335) OR Wide Grip Chins- 12 reps with (100 plate)
1 arm dumbbell row 4x12(150)
Plate Loaded T-Bar 4x8 (270)
Lat Pull downs 4x10 12-15 ( 180)

WEEKS 7-12

Rack Deadlifts – wk 7, 4 sets 4 reps (405) / wk 8, 4x 5 / wk 9 4x6
wk 10 ^ weight 4x5 wk 11/ ^5% 4x6 wk 12 4x8
Low Pulley row 4x8 (350)
Plate loaded row 4x12 (270)
cybex Pull downs 4x10 - (410) or Dumbell Rows 4x 8 (200)

Ket,on your hypers you use bodywght or hold a 25,45lb plate/i have to start them soon as my back is a bit better(you know my situation)and used to do them with 2 45's for 3 sets of 10.not sure if i should just use bodywght and increase the reps or add wght and lower the reps.also need to do good mornings but need to figure out if i want to do them on back days only or as part of my overall warm-up routine.this is the one thing,my lower back,that's holding me back.everything else is coming along from deads to squats to bench to bb rows.then i pull my back out-usually not even in the gym-and have to start all over.gettin old with this...thnx.

 

[ketsugo]

Also I think you really need to work up to do pull ups and chins to build a wide powerfull back, not pulldowns.

Deadlifts, chins of all variations and barbell rows and shrugs

 

[ketsugo]

Ket,on your hypers you use bodywght or hold a 25,45lb plate/i have to start them soon as my back is a bit better(you know my situation)and used to do them with 2 45's for 3 sets of 10.not sure if i should just use bodywght and increase the reps or add wght and lower the reps.also need to do good mornings but need to figure out if i want to do them on back days only or as part of my overall warm-up routine.this is the one thing,my lower back,that's holding me back.everything else is coming along from deads to squats to bench to bb rows.then i pull my back out-usually not even in the gym-and have to start all over.gettin old with this...thnx.

Not sure what you are asking ?

 

[rols]

I would have to go with pulling the bar to the front and the main thing I feel is I have to push my ribcage up and forward (like how Arnold looks in a side chest shot) I feel this contracts my entire back really well.

 

[ketsugo]

i would have to go with pulling the bar to the front and the main thing i feel is i have to push my ribcage up and forward (like how arnold looks in a side chest shot) i feel this contracts my entire back really well.

while that is a great way to perform chins, again chins over rows takes it . There are other profound reasons for chinning wide grip and close grip or even medium grip without pulling the bar to the chest- you get most of that from rowing anyway. To get a full stretch is imporant too- you get different feel from different widths etc. Many gyms now have pull up stattions with paralell bars where you can pull yourself between the bars up to your shoulders or higher - which some cases have found to be just as effective or better than pulling to the chest. Avoiding the rear is more because it can place your shoulder girdle in a weak mechanical position and cause injury. May experts now consider movements to the back of the neck dangerous. I think you can train fairly heavy and at farily high volume for back due to the complicated structure of all its musculature ie traps,lats, rhomboids etc etc - to gain and maintain size - the chin station should always be emphasized over sitting and doing pulldowns. Rowing barbells and dumbells over machines , unless you are injured or overly fatigued or too weak

 

[rocco-x]

Not sure what you are asking ?

when you do hyper extentions are you using just your bodywght or holding a plate for added resistance?i've seen guys in my gyms do them both ways.when i just do bodywght hyperextentions i have to go in the 20-30rep range to really feel it in my lower back.when i hold a plate across my chest and do them i hit 10-12reps but feel it alot quicker in my lower back than without.guess my question would be would the added resistance help strengthen the muscle alot faster in your opinion than if i was just doing them without added wght.