Je suis Charlie

[sax]

Since Islam didn't exist until the 7th century, and Jews (remember Jesus at about 30AD?) were in the Holy land for a couple THOUSAND years before that, how exactly were a bunch of Muslims living in the Holy land in the 13th century?

Here's where the bible comes in. Sarah gave Abraham her handmaiden named Hagar who bore a son named Ishmael, Abraham's first son. But then later Sarah had her own kid named Isaac. Given her age Isaac was considered to be a miracle birth. Hagar and Ishmael were cast out and I don't think the Bible talks to much more about them. Islam's claim to the land of milk and honey doesn't come from thinking they were there first. It comes from they believing to be descendants of Ishmael - Abraham's first son and the rightful heir. Whereas Jews and Christians are descendants Isaac. So who has the better claim? The miracle, but 2nd son, with two legitimate parents? Or the first born, somewhat bastard one? I'm not saying I believe the story. Just saying where the claim come from. Personally I think all religions are good. And extremist of all religions need to die. There are Christian extremist (David Koresh and the branch Davidians come to mind). We just take care of our nut jobs and they don't get millons in support.

 

[sax]

Not sure how I jacked up Tommygun's quote. I must have been away from the forum for too long. lol. Hello everyone.

 

[Divorce]

Well, I would say you need to study islam a little deeper. It is NOT only a religion , it is a form of gov't also. Much different than Christianity that says ''Give to Ceasar what is Caesar's''. Just for my curiosity can you point to Christian massacres say within the century or two? I'm pretty sure you are referring to The Crusades?

PS...Just as many Christians , actually more , in the world...you see them cutting heads off, raping little girls, blowing up planes, shooting school children?

You missed my point entirely, I am aware of sharia law and it's teachings. I am aware of the content of the quran and it's calls for violence. It still does not change the fact that condemning an entire religious group of people on the actions of a few is ignorant.

Neither did I specifically mention Christianity, but it is an indisputable fact that people of others faiths have killed in the name of their religion.....just because it isn't currently gracing your news channel does not mean it hasn't happened. Also, when atrocities are committed by people with different religious beliefs they are brushed off as someone with mental illness but when the crime is committed by a Muslim it is on every channel.

Just to come back onto the "raping of little girls" you seem to not be aware of the raping of young boys under the care of catholic/Christian priests.

I have seen my country which is largely a christian country and your's invade others for greed/power......justifying it with false claims of WMD's etc to hide our real intent. Whilst In the process killing women/children and other innocent people, but I guess that's ok because their countrymen have committed murder against us. I personally don't believe in justifying murder with murder

I think you are also misinterpreting my views on Islam or any other religion because people use it as an excuse for religious violence that kills innocent people. I also agree that Islam is far more extreme and dangerous than Christianity. Sure Christian's are not CURRENTLY killing anybody but they are abusing their positions of privilege.....raping children in their care amongst other things whilst brainwashing them into believing in such things as a god.

I personally feel that one of the main problems with the world is religion and I accept that islam is currently spearheading that, but it is not solely responsible

 

[1bigun11]

Here's where the bible comes in. Sarah gave Abraham her handmaiden named Hagar who bore a son named Ishmael, Abraham's first son. But then later Sarah had her own kid named Isaac. Given her age Isaac was considered to be a miracle birth. Hagar and Ishmael were cast out and I don't think the Bible talks to much more about them. Islam's claim to the land of milk and honey doesn't come from thinking they were there first. It comes from they believing to be descendants of Ishmael - Abraham's first son and the rightful heir. Whereas Jews and Christians are descendants Isaac. So who has the better claim? The miracle, but 2nd son, with two legitimate parents? Or the first born, somewhat bastard one? I'm not saying I believe the story. Just saying where the claim come from. Personally I think all religions are good. And extremist of all religions need to die. There are Christian extremist (David Koresh and the branch Davidians come to mind). We just take care of our nut jobs and they don't get millons in support.

So the bastard descendants of the slave woman who was cast out for no good reason, began to view God a bit differently than the descendants of the rich little miracle boy who inherited everything?

 

[DLTH]

You missed my point entirely, I am aware of sharia law and it's teachings. I am aware of the content of the quran and it's calls for violence. It still does not change the fact that condemning an entire religious group of people on the actions of a few is ignorant.

Neither did I specifically mention Christianity, but it is an indisputable fact that people of others faiths have killed in the name of their religion.....just because it isn't currently gracing your news channel does not mean it hasn't happened. Also, when atrocities are committed by people with different religious beliefs they are brushed off as someone with mental illness but when the crime is committed by a Muslim it is on every channel.

Just to come back onto the "raping of little girls" you seem to not be aware of the raping of young boys under the care of catholic/Christian priests.

I have seen my country which is largely a christian country and your's invade others for greed/power......justifying it with false claims of WMD's etc to hide our real intent. Whilst In the process killing women/children and other innocent people, but I guess that's ok because their countrymen have committed murder against us. I personally don't believe in justifying murder with murder

I think you are also misinterpreting my views on Islam or any other religion because people use it as an excuse for religious violence that kills innocent people. I also agree that Islam is far more extreme and dangerous than Christianity. Sure Christian's are not CURRENTLY killing anybody but they are abusing their positions of privilege.....raping children in their care amongst other things whilst brainwashing them into believing in such things as a god.

I personally feel that one of the main problems with the world is religion and I accept that islam is currently spearheading that, but it is not solely responsible

But it isn't happened right now on the same scale as Islam so we aren't focused on it. I see your point but Muslims are the biggest problem right now, that's just the way it is. You don't see Christians blowing up buildings week after week and when they do kill out of religious beliefs no other Christians side with them. A Muslim suicide bomber receives praise after he kills civilians by other Muslims, that doesn't happen with other religions in modern society. The United states can't stay out of every other countries business and you got Muslims that are still living in the barbaric dark ages, you mix the two problems and you are setting yourself up for disaster.

 

[MorganKane]

So the bar for being considered bad religion is blowing up and killing people?

I see it a bit different.
Anyone that wants my federal and state laws to be their religion is bad.
We got plenty of that shit going on here and other countries.

 

[sax]

So the bastard descendants of the slave woman who was cast out for no good reason, began to view God a bit differently than the descendants of the rich little miracle boy who inherited everything?

Yeah. I think that sums it up. lol. Listen, I'm not saying I believe it. Just saying why Muslims feel they have a right to the region.

 

[Joliver]

Just to come back onto the "raping of little girls" you seem to not be aware of the raping of young boys under the care of catholic/Christian priests.

At least it's considered rape in countries that follow other religions, and is punishable by imprisonment. You can marry a kindergartener in Saudi Arabia. Sometimes if there is serious international outcry--like when the 8 year old got married to a 70 something year old man--he had to promise not to **** her for a few years.

Recalling antiquity doesn't come to the defense of Islam. The difference is systemic support. Name a modern time non-Islamic terroristic event that had popular support within the religious community from which the attacker originated. Name a second. How many years between the two? Rhetorical question.

Boko haram just killed an entire village of 2,000. The Taliban just executed an entire elementary school of 150 kids. That doesn't include the latest ISIS savagery. Been a bloody 2015 for Islam.

This is where atheism falls short: equating all religions. True they equate them as unnecessary, but it is parity nonetheless. You cannot claim a logical, scientific mind regarding religion if you cannot objectively view the evidence of their action.

I'm leaving this argument. If you don't know, you don't want to know.

The truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. --Elvis Presley

 

[1bigun11]

And don't step on Joliver's blue suede shoes either! Lol

 

[tommyguns2]

Joliver, your contributions to this conversation have been excellent. Thanks!

 

[IronCore]

yes.. Joliver has saved me a lot of keystrokes on this one... and for that sir... I thank you!

 

[HGH]

All other religions grew up. They put down the sword...literally. The holy wars were over 700 years ago. And yes, you'll be able to find an example of a Christian religious nut, but that'll be the exception...not the rule.

Equating other religions to Islam is false equivalency. You can go into a temple, church, or synagogue in its native land and say that the religion is ridiculous. But you know deep down in your heart that if you walked into a mosque in raqqa and said the same things about Islam,your head would be sitting on your back for the obligatory photo op. You could piss on the pope and only do jail time--hell, the pope forgave the guy who shot him!

In my eyes, religion isn't useful. It stifles human curiosity to teach faith. I can live with all of them...even Scientology (talk about them and you'll get sued).

The all inclusive "Islam is only as dangerous as the others" is an argument that is lost every day in the news.

I disagree wholeheartedly. Here's an analogy:

What I'm saying is that all volcanoes are dangerous. What you're saying is only the volcano that is currently erupting is dangerous.

All religions are like active volcanoes. Christianity has erupted before, and it was BILLIONS of times worse than what's currently happening with Islam. It will probably happen again. It's just a matter of time.