Je suis Charlie

[Lizard King]

yes.. Joliver has saved me a lot of keystrokes on this one... and for that sir... I thank you!

Keystrokes, son, you are not that smart

 

[IronCore]

I disagree wholeheartedly. Here's an analogy:What I'm saying is that all volcanoes are dangerous. What you're saying is only the volcano that is currently erupting is dangerous.All religions are like active volcanoes. Christianity has erupted before, and it was BILLIONS of times worse than what's currently happening with Islam. It will probably happen again. It's just a matter of time.

Can you please cite and example that is BILLIONS times worse than some cowards shooting up civilians on a street in the name of Christianity? I am actually curious and eager to hear this... can you also show me where, in the New Testament, Jesus instructs his followers to kill those that would not accept his teachings? Pretty please???? Once you cite these examples; then show me where the Christians danced in the streets in celebration for these atrocities.

 

[HGH]

Can you please cite and example that is BILLIONS times worse than some cowards shooting up civilians on a street in the name of Christianity? I am actually curious and eager to hear this... can you also show me where, in the New Testament, Jesus instructs his followers to kill those that would not accept his teachings? Pretty please???? Once you cite these examples; then show me where the Christians danced in the streets in celebration for these atrocities.

Have you ever heard of the Spanish Inquisition? Burning people alive at the stake for refusing to convert to Christianity? Now you know where the Muslim extremists got that idea from. And yes, I think a government-sponsored program to convert or exterminate it's own citizens is about exactly one billion times worse than rogues shooting a few people in the street.

Also, you seem to want to divorce Christianity from the Old Testament, but the reality is that it's a part of your religion, and it's a violent, disgusting, abhorrent piece of shit that people should be ashamed to keep in their homes (which why I tear my least favorite verse, Leviticus 18:22, out of every hotel Bible I come across; I got 2 this weekend at Disneyland). So no, I won't limit my lambasting of Christianity to exclusively the New Testament, although the New Testament is also a tissue of absurdities.

Feel free to do your own research on the tactics that Spaniards used to convert South Americans. It's not my job to teach you the history of Christianity, but it is your job to know it.

 

[IronCore]

Ahhhh I see so clearly now. You don't like Christians or the bible because it says don't be gay. Wonder how those muzzies your defending feel about it???

 

[Joliver]

I disagree wholeheartedly. Here's an analogy:

What I'm saying is that all volcanoes are dangerous. What you're saying is only the volcano that is currently erupting is dangerous.

All religions are like active volcanoes. Christianity has erupted before, and it was BILLIONS of times worse than what's currently happening with Islam. It will probably happen again. It's just a matter of time.

Poor analogy. Christians are humans. The kind of people that thought there were sea monsters that would eat your ship if you didn't sail off the edge of the earth. Humans have picked up a thing or two since then.

A volcano is a geological formation and is subject to geophysical forces that are the same today as they were millions of years ago-- hell, even on other planets and moons.

A volcano today is analogous to a volcano of 2,000 years ago. That is not the case with today's human. I have more computational power in my pocket sitting in traffic than all of the manhattan project had when they created the first fission device. The layperson knows more about science now than the MOST CUTTING EDGE SCIENTIST HAD IN THE EARLY 1900's.

Your theory that Christians are just "waiting to blow" is based on two flawed assumptions: 1) human Christians would need to devolve. It's flawed because in the thousands of years of humanity, there have been stagnant times, but on the whole, time and progress marches on. We evolve as a species. It flies in the face of factual science to believe otherwise. And 2) You assume that Christians would be the only humans that devolved into blood sport. That is an unbelievable bias against every other religion and a massive handicap for Islam.

The Spanish Inquisition started in the 1400s and ended in the 1800s. It is no longer applicable. It like saying "you kissed my first crush in the 3rd grade, so I knocked up your wife." It's a convenient argument, but is is smoke and mirrors--especially since the average Christian isn't going to quit his job, leave his 2.3 kids and dog, run out on his wife to buy a rifle to forcibly spread gods word. It's absurd logic.

I'd abandon this argument. You cannot win it. Your bias in favor of the culprit is palpable. There is no objectivity. It is the same tired argument of historical vs modern wrongs. I'll keep firing last week's relevant murderous headlines and you'll be googling the irrelevant Salem witch trials in a few more posts.

 

[IronCore]

Have you ever heard of the Spanish Inquisition? Burning people alive at the stake for refusing to convert to Christianity? Now you know where the Muslim extremists got that idea from. And yes, I think a government-sponsored program to convert or exterminate it's own citizens is about exactly one billion times worse than rogues shooting a few people in the street. Also, you seem to want to divorce Christianity from the Old Testament, but the reality is that it's a part of your religion, and it's a violent, disgusting, abhorrent piece of shit that people should be ashamed to keep in their homes (which why I tear my least favorite verse, Leviticus 18:22, out of every hotel Bible I come across; I got 2 this weekend at Disneyland). So no, I won't limit my lambasting of Christianity to exclusively the New Testament, although the New Testament is also a tissue of absurdities.Feel free to do your own research on the tactics that Spaniards used to convert South Americans. It's not my job to teach you the history of Christianity, but it is your job to know it.

Now that I have more time I will respond more... as Joliver said, the Spanish Inquisition isnt any more relevant to this conversation as me kissing your 3rd grade crush... yes it happened and yes it was an atrocity... Billion times worse? Not so much. don't act like people aren't slaughtered daily in the middle east for not converting to Islam... even burned while alive. So again your comparison is weak at best... And to reinforce your misguided hate to Christianity, You can openly admit to defacing the Holy Book and not face any consequence... as a matter of fact Jesus spoke about this very thing in matther 10:14 ""Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet."... nothing like what is written in the Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle... so Tell me again Why you dont like Christianity????

 

[IronCore]

one more I found particularly interesting... Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place."... This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.... Peaceful religion indeed.

 

[1bigun11]

If anything, I sometimes think Christianity is a bit too peaceful. Tends to put up with too much and let things get too far out of control before it fights. Tends to turn the other cheek too much. Tries too hard to be a peacemaker in quarrels that are none of its business.


The Muslim world had better thank whatever God there is that the world's last remaining superpower restrains itself by beliefs many would deem "Christian." May god help them on the day we grow weary and discard those restraints--and then unleash the fires of hell upon them all.

 

[HGH]

Ahhhh I see so clearly now. You don't like Christians or the bible because it says don't be gay. Wonder how those muzzies your defending feel about it???

I'm not defending Muslims. You're just so deeply, profoundly bigoted against them that you have an us/them mentality in their regard.

Poor analogy. Christians are humans. The kind of people that thought there were sea monsters that would eat your ship if you didn't sail off the edge of the earth. Humans have picked up a thing or two since then.

A volcano is a geological formation and is subject to geophysical forces that are the same today as they were millions of years ago-- hell, even on other planets and moons.

A volcano today is analogous to a volcano of 2,000 years ago. That is not the case with today's human. I have more computational power in my pocket sitting in traffic than all of the manhattan project had when they created the first fission device. The layperson knows more about science now than the MOST CUTTING EDGE SCIENTIST HAD IN THE EARLY 1900's.

Your theory that Christians are just "waiting to blow" is based on two flawed assumptions: 1) human Christians would need to devolve. It's flawed because in the thousands of years of humanity, there have been stagnant times, but on the whole, time and progress marches on. We evolve as a species. It flies in the face of factual science to believe otherwise. And 2) You assume that Christians would be the only humans that devolved into blood sport. That is an unbelievable bias against every other religion and a massive handicap for Islam.

The Spanish Inquisition started in the 1400s and ended in the 1800s. It is no longer applicable. It like saying "you kissed my first crush in the 3rd grade, so I knocked up your wife." It's a convenient argument, but is is smoke and mirrors--especially since the average Christian isn't going to quit his job, leave his 2.3 kids and dog, run out on his wife to buy a rifle to forcibly spread gods word. It's absurd logic.

Actually, it was a flawless analogy.

The simple fact remains that WHEN religious people feel oppressed, they DO act out violently in the name of their religion. ALL of the time.

If Muslims took over most of the world Christians would ______________? Please fill in that blank for me with what you think actual Christians would actually do.

It is a GIANT JOKE that you think Christian violence is moot because it's in the past. You aren't CURRENTLY committing acts of violence because you don't CURRENTLY need to. Just like you're not CURRENTLY shitting because you don't CURRENTLY need to. It has nothing to do with Christians "devolving". You haven't evolved above anyone else. You just won the culture wars (by using unprecedented levels of violence) and stopped using violence when you got what you wanted.

Christians ended their reign of terror ONLY at the point at which it worked.

I'd abandon this argument. You cannot win it. Your bias in favor of the culprit is palpable. There is no objectivity. It is the same tired argument of historical vs modern wrongs. I'll keep firing last week's relevant murderous headlines and you'll be googling the irrelevant Salem witch trials in a few more posts.

Again, in your case you're so horrifically bigoted that it's rendered you unable to think. What have I said that makes you think I'm biased IN FAVOR of Muslims? All I've said is that Christians are the EXACT SAME KIND OF ****. AGAIN: tell me what you think Christians would do if Muslims took over most of the world?

Now that I have more time I will respond more... as Joliver said, the Spanish Inquisition isnt any more relevant to this conversation as me kissing your 3rd grade crush... yes it happened and yes it was an atrocity... Billion times worse? Not so much. don't act like people aren't slaughtered daily in the middle east for not converting to Islam... even burned while alive. So again your comparison is weak at best... And to reinforce your misguided hate to Christianity, You can openly admit to defacing the Holy Book and not face any consequence... as a matter of fact Jesus spoke about this very thing in matther 10:14 ""Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet."... nothing like what is written in the Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle... so Tell me again Why you dont like Christianity????

First of all, it's not deniable that the Spanish Inquisition was worse than current Muslim atrocities. You don't get to say that because it's factually incorrect.

Second of all, yes it is absolutely relevant. You don't get to sweep your history under the rug, although being delusional is what makes it possible for you to believe in God. Have you changed your text since then? Is there anything new or different added or removed from your Bible since the Inquisition that would render it impossible for modern Christians to use it to justify violence?

Third of all, the Spanish Inquisition is a minor event in comparison to the worldwide havoc christians wrought. It's one shitty event in one country. It's one drop in a massive bucket.

 

[woodswise]

The problem I have with this entire conversation is that both sides are assuming you can judge individuals by their membership in a group. Both Muslims and Christians are diverse not only as individuals but also as sects and communities with differing values.

While there are some terrible extremist Muslim terrorists out there, and they are organized across nations and borders, there are many more (indeed the large majority) of Muslims who do not promote terrorism, large numbers of whom are victims of the extremist's behavior. It is simply wrong to label all Muslims as bad or terrorists or extemists, and it hurts and does not help us achieve our objectives in fighting the extremists.

Similarly there are also some terrible Christians out there and sometimes they are organized and sometimes they do terrible things, but the large majority of Christians do not advocate doing those terrible things. And similarly it is wrong to label all Christians supporters of the terrible Christians, just because they call their religion by the same name.

 

[graniteman]

The terrorists I listed were motivated by extreme adherence to a particular dogma, which is tantamount to religion (in my opinion).

Also, I believe the reason Christians don't currently commit atrocities in the name of religion is because they're already in control of most of the world. At the time that they were not in control they committed horrific atrocities to gain that control (operating on a scale much greater than current Muslim terrorists). Some Muslims are employing similar tactics currently.

If Muslims were in control of most of the world I have 0% doubt that Christians would start blowing shit up for Christ.

^^Muslims have been in control of Egytp = Coptic Christians, Turkey = Antioch (one of the Earliest Christian Churches), Syria, Lebanon...etc Can you point to Christian terror groups going around ''blowing shit up''? I have read tons about muslims blowing up Centuries old Churches, graves, Statues.. etc.
How can you as a gay guy back a religion that is at this very moment and will cut gays heads off. I think Christ told us to look at ourselves not others..mohamed says the opposite...could be why you hate Christianity so much?

Here's where the bible comes in. Sarah gave Abraham her handmaiden named Hagar who bore a son named Ishmael, Abraham's first son. But then later Sarah had her own kid named Isaac. Given her age Isaac was considered to be a miracle birth. Hagar and Ishmael were cast out and I don't think the Bible talks to much more about them. Islam's claim to the land of milk and honey doesn't come from thinking they were there first. It comes from they believing to be descendants of Ishmael - Abraham's first son and the rightful heir. Whereas Jews and Christians are descendants Isaac. So who has the better claim? The miracle, but 2nd son, with two legitimate parents? Or the first born, somewhat bastard one? I'm not saying I believe the story. Just saying where the claim come from. Personally I think all religions are good. And extremist of all religions need to die. There are Christian extremist (David Koresh and the branch Davidians come to mind). We just take care of our nut jobs and they don't get millons in support.

Actually God Promised The Jews The Land of Milk and Honey. He said he would Bless Ishmael with many descendants. Mohamed and islam doesn't have have much to do with the convo as they came along centuries after, close to 700 years

You missed my point entirely, I am aware of sharia law and it's teachings. I am aware of the content of the quran and it's calls for violence. It still does not change the fact that condemning an entire religious group of people on the actions of a few is ignorant.

Neither did I specifically mention Christianity, but it is an indisputable fact that people of others faiths have killed in the name of their religion.....just because it isn't currently gracing your news channel does not mean it hasn't happened. Also, when atrocities are committed by people with different religious beliefs they are brushed off as someone with mental illness but when the crime is committed by a Muslim it is on every channel.

Just to come back onto the "raping of little girls" you seem to not be aware of the raping of young boys under the care of catholic/Christian priests.

I have seen my country which is largely a christian country and your's invade others for greed/power......justifying it with false claims of WMD's etc to hide our real intent. Whilst In the process killing women/children and other innocent people, but I guess that's ok because their countrymen have committed murder against us. I personally don't believe in justifying murder with murder

I think you are also misinterpreting my views on Islam or any other religion because people use it as an excuse for religious violence that kills innocent people. I also agree that Islam is far more extreme and dangerous than Christianity. Sure Christian's are not CURRENTLY killing anybody but they are abusing their positions of privilege.....raping children in their care amongst other things whilst brainwashing them into believing in such things as a god.

I personally feel that one of the main problems with the world is religion and I accept that islam is currently spearheading that, but it is not solely responsible

1st : The catholic church was prosecuted and paid the molested who came forward, islam rewards the baby rapers with the child. How do you draw a comparison?

2nd : I hear this conspiracy theory from the tinfoil hat crowd all the time. So if you can point to one, ,JUST ONE , country we invaded and stole their goods and kept the land under our control it would help immensely. Your crowd says we invaded Iraq for oil, where's the oil? China got the oil contracts they had signed BEFORE the war. Examples please, of America's ''INVASION FOR GREED AND POWER''. We have invaded and Freed millions..can't think of a single country we occupy as a ''Conqueror''

Have you ever heard of the Spanish Inquisition? Burning people alive at the stake for refusing to convert to Christianity? Now you know where the Muslim extremists got that idea from. And yes, I think a government-sponsored program to convert or exterminate it's own citizens is about exactly one billion times worse than rogues shooting a few people in the street.

Also, you seem to want to divorce Christianity from the Old Testament, but the reality is that it's a part of your religion, and it's a violent, disgusting, abhorrent piece of shit that people should be ashamed to keep in their homes (which why I tear my least favorite verse, Leviticus 18:22, out of every hotel Bible I come across; I got 2 this weekend at Disneyland). So no, I won't limit my lambasting of Christianity to exclusively the New Testament, although the New Testament is also a tissue of absurdities.

Feel free to do your own research on the tactics that Spaniards used to convert South Americans. It's not my job to teach you the history of Christianity, but it is your job to know it.

Look at the bold quote of yours above....derrrr Kinda sounds like EXACTLY what islam is doing in every country it is in, right now, at this moment..Not hundreds of years ago.

Christ asks you to look at yourself, not others....this could be where your venomous hatred is stemming from bro

 

[Divorce]

^^Muslims have been in control of Egytp = Coptic Christians, Turkey = Antioch (one of the Earliest Christian Churches), Syria, Lebanon...etc Can you point to Christian terror groups going around ''blowing shit up''? I have read tons about muslims blowing up Centuries old Churches, graves, Statues.. etc.
How can you as a gay guy back a religion that is at this very moment and will cut gays heads off. I think Christ told us to look at ourselves not others..mohamed says the opposite...could be why you hate Christianity so much?


Actually God Promised The Jews The Land of Milk and Honey. He said he would Bless Ishmael with many descendants. Mohamed and islam doesn't have have much to do with the convo as they came along centuries after, close to 700 years


1st : The catholic church was prosecuted and paid the molested who came forward, islam rewards the baby rapers with the child. How do you draw a comparison?

2nd : I hear this conspiracy theory from the tinfoil hat crowd all the time. So if you can point to one, ,JUST ONE , country we invaded and stole their goods and kept the land under our control it would help immensely. Your crowd says we invaded Iraq for oil, where's the oil? China got the oil contracts they had signed BEFORE the war. Examples please, of America's ''INVASION FOR GREED AND POWER''. We have invaded and Freed millions..can't think of a single country we occupy as a ''Conqueror''



Look at the bold quote of yours above....derrrr Kinda sounds like EXACTLY what islam is doing in every country it is in, right now, at this moment..Not hundreds of years ago.

Christ asks you to look at yourself, not others....this could be where your venomous hatred is stemming from bro

The child molestation continues to happen, yes it may be classed as a crime in the western world but over here the sentences for such crimes are a joke.

Also I would be interested to hear your views on why you invaded iraq because you have left the country in a worse state when you entered. We/you entered the country due to "WMD's that were not found because they did not exist and innoncent women/children died as a consequence of our actions..... whichever way you want to try justify it..... it is murder.

Also I just want to clarify I am in no way defending the islamic religion, I am merely stating that it is ignorant to condemn an entire religious population on the actions of a few. I am aware of the grotesque calls for violence in the quran, but I am also aware of the same calls from the old/new testament. admittedly christianity is benign in comparison to Islam at this current moment in time (richard dawkins quote), but to call the spanish inquisition irrelavant to me suggests that the innocent lives that were taken are irrelevant. So would it be justified for people to say the same thing about the victims of 9/11 or the 7/7 bombings here in the UK in a few hundred years time? I don't think it would be.

Yes Joliver we may have evolved and progressed to some degree, yet people still believe in supernatural nonsense and claim the existence of a god. Now I appreciate that some people feel insulted when their religious beliefs are questioned...... but the vast amount of christians believe the bible is history and you would have to ignore the vast amount of impartial biblical research that shows that it isn't. This nonsense is also taken into a great amount of consideration when it comes to forming new legislation ( in england at least) and for some reason 26 seats in parliament are reserved for bishops. Why don't we have 26 seats for people who believe in unicorns..... after all they have never been proven to be more than supernatural nonsense . Now before someone says no one has proven there isn't a god, christians claim the existence of a god so the burden of proof lies with them. Richard Dawkins - The god delusion is a real eye opener

it is an indisputable fact that Islam is the cause of the religious violence in these current times, but there is in my opinion a lot of additional things which are wrong with religion.

"This is where atheism falls short: equating all religions. True they equate them as unnecessary, but it is parity nonetheless. You cannot claim a logical, scientific mind regarding religion if you cannot objectively view the evidence of their action".

if you listen to the views of one of the most outspoken athiests in the world richard dawkins (who's views I share) he states that christianity is benign in comparison to islam, an example he provides is that you are free to leave christianity and in contrast in islamic countries governed by sharia law the punishment for apostasy is death. To me that does not suggest "parity"