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Holding on to your gains after steroids

rezjzzor084

rezjzzor084

MuscleHead
Dec 17, 2013
260
16
It means " I have nothing to contribute to the topic at hand, but notice me anyways"

thx Raiden - it's hard to write something - admin will sentence me to another trolling globe and then I am 3 days in the
damn anonymous internet without any TID:(( - but that's not the problem - just joking - I never liked carneval or dressing up
in some other role. I was never happy in a forum. I never liked it - ok - 1 time i was in a cook costume.
i like the gym - and obviously now it's normal in a civilizised world to use the internet to stick in a forum with the proper subject.
i will have to learn - be anonymous - be anonymous -

i can tell you a hundret times - "no, i don't drink alcohol - i don't drink beer - i don't smoke - i don't smoke pot - i don't take any drugs"
ok - in last 2 years I had 2 beers with 15 cigarettes. but i don't like the taste.
and actually it is one main reason to get rid of this stupid drinking and smoking manner that i restart and continue with gym.
but you will come anyway and ask me "What did you smoke? dude" "What are you on? again LSD?" "You better stop that pipe."
Computer related forum, Linux forum, any other forum i stopped it. ****ing computer nerds. I'd love to beat them down
when i see those stupid anonymous puppets standing in a street spreading flyers - didn't i wrote that already :confused:

it is not my aim to show off with a great body and exchange pics of mine with no fat - of course - that is the 2nd thought when i analyze my mind (if i have one)
yeah, would be great of course to have good body figure - but i eat and i don't want to replace alcohol and cigarettes with
other substances which are not good for my health. and i don't have the money - and i wouldn't spend it for this if i had it.

or? i don't know - it's absolutly no topic btw - one of my fitness centers writes in their house rules that you are not allowed to
make some noises during the exercises on their machines or during any other exercises in their rooms. So it is officially not allowed
to shout out loudly "1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 77777777&, 8!" - that'd be the hotstepper - but it's like a house rule in a
community which tells you that you are not allowed to release loud "AAAAHHH"s during having sex in your bed with your bf/gf.

That is just a wanker school for cute cardio puppets - use your left or right hand for wanking - how you learned it - watch your porn or your
playmate in the magazin but shut up! mom and daddy are sleeping - don't wake them up! and don't use pics of black chicks!!! jesus! %-(

What is Gear? that is no topic for me! cause i go to gym i should write in a bodybuilder forum?
because of gym i should take gear? because everybody takes it? so i go with the main stream? live is like that?

writing in an internet forum is like sitting in a wheel chair and you can use the little dildo in your mouth to go left or right
because down on from your neck you are unable to move - that's the board
 
Last edited:
woodswise

woodswise

TID Board Of Directors
Apr 29, 2012
4,334
1,340
Rezjzzor, please contribute something meaningful, or leave this forum.
 
IronSoul

IronSoul

TID Board Of Directors
Apr 2, 2013
6,334
2,106
That boy's cheese dun slid off his cracker

Man!!!! Dudes making me feel like I'm the skitzo. I think the problem here is his lack of drugs, he obviously needs some. Maybe that LSD or pipe he speaks of would balance him out. I agree with woods 100% on this one
 
oldschool1967

oldschool1967

VIP Member
Aug 6, 2011
1,649
172
If you start out with a solid gear free base, as did I and many others, come the time when you decide you are ready to start taking AAS you may lose most of the gains you made while you were on but you will have a solid foundation you built while being natty, the most I ever gained while using was around 10 lbs, the biggest difference I noticed was my drop in strength. If you started lifting and ran out of patience and dove onto the gear wagon, II would imagine when you cycle off, your loss would be devastating I would imagine.Commence with the ugly side of gear, the side most of us can just sit back and shake our heads in disbelief at.
 
sootywooty

sootywooty

MuscleHead
Sep 12, 2013
386
48
If you start out with a solid gear free base, as did I and many others, come the time when you decide you are ready to start taking AAS you may lose most of the gains you made while you were on but you will have a solid foundation you built while being natty, the most I ever gained while using was around 10 lbs, the biggest difference I noticed was my drop in strength. If you started lifting and ran out of patience and dove onto the gear wagon, II would imagine when you cycle off, your loss would be devastating I would imagine.Commence with the ugly side of gear, the side most of us can just sit back and shake our heads in disbelief at.

Thats a great post Oldschool! Also i suppose in the USA it is abit different, most BBs in the UK are natural so their is not that much pressure to take them really. Only 10lbs difference that is great also! because i remember you telling us about your BW a while back, so i would imagine if one takes them early, alot is still natural gains over time as well.

Also i have read about some of the oldschool guys saying their is about between 7lb to 15lbs difference when they are in top shape.
 
Dr_jitsu

Dr_jitsu

Senior Member
Apr 21, 2013
222
16
Actually, if one uses HCG properly, there is a reason for some effective results from tapering. The body is resistant to change, once achieving a period of homeostasis. That is why, after a few years of training naturally and gaining 10-15 lbs a year, the best you can expect is 5 lbs of new muscle per year. The same applies to gains from steroids. The longer you hold them, and training methods and diet are critical here, along w/pct (I just finished an article on this subject that I will post up) the higher % of muscle you will keep.

Don't run HCG on cycle. Say you are doing 450 test, 250 NPP weekly, and 50 mgs of var 5 days a week. First drop the Npp. 10 days or so later, drop the var. You should be just as big and strong for several weeks @400 mgs of test. There are some docs now, running trt close to 400 for big, 250 lb plus guys for 5-6 months, w/ a one month HCG run (2k IU's e2d). Stay @ 400 test for 2-3 weeks. Then run HCG @ the above dose for 3 weeks along w/ an appropriate dose of an AI (HCG really jacks my estro, I do 1 mg of Dex). Then transition to your SERM. I run a fairly large dose of SERMs the first week, and then taper over 2-3. Younger guys will need less.

As mentioned, this^ is half the battle. The other is diet and training.
 
Dr_jitsu

Dr_jitsu

Senior Member
Apr 21, 2013
222
16
Oldschool and CTJ, excellent posts. You need a five year min. base of hard consistent training. I even did 5 drug tested shows. First cycle was @30. I get kids coming up to me @ the gym wanting gear, and I say "do you even train?" Yeah, for 3 months w/ only a 1 month break when I was partying."
 
Dr_jitsu

Dr_jitsu

Senior Member
Apr 21, 2013
222
16
How to retain muscle after a steroid cycle.

There are an endless number of threads/articles/discussions about the importance of a proper pct, how to use AI's, HCG, SERMS et al. These discussions are very crucial, as the endocrine system must be restored to normalcy. However another critical component of the post cycle period is hardly discussed at all: How to train in order to keep the size one got from the cycle. In my many years of experience, I see athletes retain 2/3rds of the size and strength the got from the cycle, because they run a correct pct coupled with proper training.

We are all familiar with the fact that steroids increase protein synthesis dramatically, what many do not know or understand is that there is a second role that steroids play in building muscle: They blunt the effect of cortisol. Intense training (absolutely critical to building muscle) increases cortisol. Cortisol/Glucocorticoids induce rapid muscle breakdown and proximal muscle atrophy. Androgen’s suppress this process very effectively. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15251668.

This^ is a large part of why I run gear. I like to do an hour and 20 minutes of high intensity lifting, followed up 25 minute of maximal training hitting the bags. Steroids enable me to do so. There is no way I could do nearly 2 hours of maximal training bereft of androgens

What this all means is that our post cycle workouts must both retain muscle, while at the same time not elevating cortisol. Doing so is a delicate matter, and many, many trainees succumb to this conundrum. Some keep blasting away, desperately trying to do the same workouts as they did on gear. In the words of my favorite villain, Bane, “admirable....but mistaken.”

On the other hand, you have trainees (especially those foolish enough to not do a pct who simply stop working out. Of course they lose all muscle, in fact becoming smaller than they were at the beginning of their cycle.


There was a well written thread here at TID about how to train after a cycle. The author advocated one week off at the end of the cycle. This is actually not a bad idea. However the reason I do not advocate this strategy is that one week might lead to two.... Instead, I argue that one should take a few days off, being careful to set a limit, 3 days or so. I also suggest that they take a day off anytime they feel like doing so. On cycle, I will not miss workouts, I will just suck it up and push through it. Do not do this when off cycle. Doing so is hard for A type personalities, but important.

To understand the next suggestions, lets take a look at training and muscle growth: Muscle do not grow while lifting, The grow when we rest/eat/sleep. The weights are the stimulus for growth. I am a fan of Dorian Yates philosophy, which was a spin on Mike Mentzers “Heavy Duty” philosophy. That philosophy says that we should only do enough sets to stimulate growth, and that is it. Warm up, and then do a “working set.”

A working set requires maximal intensity, going to failure, and then either forced reps, drop sets, etc. You put your heart and soul into that set. Dorian Yates had a similar approach to training, except he advocated 2 working sets.

Myself, and with people I work with, I advocate 3 working sets while on cycle. Warm up and 3 working sets may look like a typical work out program, but is not.

Keep in mind that once you do the first warm up, you don't need warm up for the rest of your sets. So, you do 2-3 sets of bench to warm up followed by 3 working sets. On your next exercise, you do 3 sets total, the first to absolute failure, using rest pause, but no help from a spotter. Same with the second. And to be clear, I am talking about doing everything you can to absolute failure. If you are not training harder than 95% of the people in the gym, you are not training hard enough.

Also, we hit each angle of the muscle, and no more. You will go all out on the bench, but then do no more mid-chest work. No flat fly's, pec deck, nothing. So, 5-6 sets of mid chest, and then hit incline, say 3 sets of all out dumbbell incline presses, forced reps on the final set. Then 3 more for decline. If you do not have a spotter, then do drop sets. If you feel the need to do more sets, then your intensity was not high enough.

Also, when on, I do lots of cardio, 5-6 days a week between high intensity martial arts training, and incline tread mill @ 80% of max heart rate. When off, I still do 2-3 days of cardio. I am older, as big as I want to be and do sports that require a high degree of cardio. Also, I do cardio for health reasons.

As mentioned, if you are a younger guy or gal, trying to get big, you may want to cut out cardio altogether. Cardio will eat into your recovery. One compromise might be to do 20 minutes of low intensity cardio twice a week. You have to determine what is right for you.

Now, onto the topic of weights while off cycle. First, instead of 3 working sets, decrease to 2. Drop all forced reps, drop sets and other extreme effort techniques. Instead, go to 90-95% of maximal intensity. That means one rep less than absolute failure. Try to stay with the same weight you were using on cycle, but one rep less. Be careful, as post cycle is one of the easiest times to get injured.

Years ago, Dan Duchane pointed out research that indicated that the best rep scheme for increasing natural test production was 5. This was true especially for large muscle groups, namely squats and deadlifts. The catch is that these heavy basic lifts were going on during a time that the body was susceptible to injury. Lets unpack this scenario.

Some do pct using a “power pct” approach. That means a large amount of HCG is used for 2-3 weeks after the cycle having long esters. That would get you to the point where esters would clear, and SERMs could be effectively implemented. Others use small amounts of HCG on cycle, and short esters during the end enabling an immediate transition to SERMs. Either way the endocrine system is artificially propped up. As such, there is no need for heavy 5's to stimulate natural test production. I recommend higher reps during this period to prevent injury. Once the SERMs end, transition into the 5 rep schema, being sure to use perfect technique in order to avoid injury. Do so for 2 months, at which point start moving into higher reps and having enough off time to begin a new cycle.
 
Dr_jitsu

Dr_jitsu

Senior Member
Apr 21, 2013
222
16
Edit: I meant "don't run HCG for full cycle, just middle and end.
 
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