GH/Slin log.

[SAD]

Logged 42hrs at work from Friday morning until this afternoon, so haven't been able to update in a while, so here goes.

HOLY FUCKING BLOAT! My ankles are now cankles and my shoes are all barely tied to make room for my massively swollen feet. Not painful, but certainly noticeable and embarrassing. Hands have not gotten much worse, although my wedding band is a little tighter today than it was Thursday. Haven't weighed myself in a few days, but I have tomorrow off and will be attacking the gym with a vengeance, so I'm interested to see what I weigh in at tomorrow. With all of this damn water, I wouldn't be surprised if I was pushing 255+. As far as sleep goes, it IS getting more complete and recuperative, which I am thankful for and was really looking forward to before I started this run. Muscles look extremely full but I would guess that the water-weight has a lot to do with that as well. As for strength, well, surprisingly it is still going up, although I expect the decreased protein synthesis during PCT to catch up soon. I hope to maintain my current numbers, but if I lose a little strength, I won't be heart broken. If I continue to GAIN strength, I will be shocked, amazed, and completely hooked on growth/slin. Still haven't received my peptides (WTF) but I expect them very very soon, so a new protocol will be posted up as soon as I get 'em. As for the lethargy, it comes and goes throughout the day, and working three 14hr shifts in 3 days certainly didn't help that. I'm still torn on whether or not to use T3 or T4 or a combo of both, or neither. The bloat I can deal with (if it doesn't get worse) and the lethargy is manageable, so I'll probably introduce a combo of both whenever I decide to start cutting in anticipation of my next cycle (Dec/Jan-ish).

I'll update everything tomorrow as far as weight and peptide/GH/slin protocol.

 

[AllTheWay]

ewwww the bloat would be totally unacceptable for me. i get edematous anymore if i eat too much pizza because of the simple carbs in it, cant even imagine doing something that would make me that way all the time!

kudos to you for your financial planning and wise use of funds. good luck with the bloat. i would go with maybe 25mcg T3 and not bother with T4(still dont understand why you would consider T4 over T3) manpowers T3/ephedra/caffiene stack is great. smooth energy.

 

[SAD]

ewwww the bloat would be totally unacceptable for me. i get edematous anymore if i eat too much pizza because of the simple carbs in it, cant even imagine doing something that would make me that way all the time!

kudos to you for your financial planning and wise use of funds. good luck with the bloat. i would go with maybe 25mcg T3 and not bother with T4(still dont understand why you would consider T4 over T3) manpowers T3/ephedra/caffiene stack is great. smooth energy.

I should have taken a picture of my cankles last night, they were laughably gigantic. This morning they are much better, possibly because I consumed a gallon of Powerade Zero yesterday morning and then tried to flush out all those electrolytes last night with a gallon of water.

As far as the T4 usage vs. the T3, like I said, still somewhat lost on the issue. However, from what I understand about from the T4 theorists, exogenous T3 actually negates the anabolic effects of GH, but you need T3 for GH to be maximally effective, and exogenous T4 does NOT negate the anabolic effects of GH and will also convert to T3 in the body. So in the end, you get more T3 without negating the anabolic effects of GH that are mediated through IGF-1. <------ Disclaimer: this is just how I interpreted the info I've read, could be slightly off base here, but not too far.

Sooooooooooo, Shine, I used to count on you for medical study related discussions, and you have let me down so far. Please help me out and respond to my thread on this topic http://www.theironden.com/peptides-igf-hgh-insulin/4322-gh-without-t3-t4-t3-t4.html

 

[AllTheWay]

you are putting way too much thought into the whole T4 vs T3 thing. im sure that T3 has little to negligable effects on the anabolic effects of GH. it is kind of like worrying about losing $1 when you have wasted $100 on something else. although with as much money as you are spending you might only be able to afford the T4

 

[SAD]

I know you didn't mean for it to, but the statement "you are putting way too much thought into" when regarding something as serious as manipulating my hormones just rubs me the wrong way. The reason why this lifestyle has changed so much in the last 20 years is because people have put "way too much" thought into how to do it more effectively and safely. Guys used to run deca only cycles with no PCT and that was normal. I'll never stop trying to tweak and improve my lifts or physique, so why stop trying to do the same with my hormone usage?

Anyway, did you read the studies in the other thread? From my interpretation, it isn't a "$1 vs. $100" difference. I would value your opinion on those studies as I don't have a medical backround and may miss some things here and there.

 

[AllTheWay]

LOL i love your seriousness SAD.

so......Dr. Ken Blanchard on the T4/T3 Issue

The Australian study replaced 50 mcg of T4 with 10 mcg T3 -- patients took 50 mcg less T4, then took either 1) 10 mg T3 or 2) 50 mg T4 (identical capsules). They spent:

1) 10 weeks on T4 or T4/T3
2) 4 weeks on their usual T4 dose
3) Then crossed over to the opposite of whatever protocol they followed in the first 10 week period

Just as with the Bunevicius study, they used too much T3, which leads to poor T4/T3 balance. The Bunevicius study was only 5 weeks -- the longer patients take T4/T3 that is imbalanced toward T3, the more likely they are to feel poorly at the end of the study, because T4 tissue levels fall slowly when there is too much T3 in the T4/T3 prescription.

Note that they seem surprised that TSH was significantly higher on the T4/T3 -- I would have been very surprised if it had NOT been higher.

The Canadian-American study cut usual T4 doses by 50% and added T3 12.5 mcg twice daily (vs. placebo, twice daily.) Once again, the dose of T3 is ridiculously high -- at least they assessed patients at 2, 4, 6, 9 12 and 15 weeks. They maintained TSH in the "euthyroid" range by dose adjustments -- fundamentally wrong assumption that TSH is the absolute arbiter of thyroid function levels.

In short -- any T4/T3 study that does not give T4/T3 in about a 98%/2% T3 T4/T3 ratio and does not give T3 in time-release form will not come close to reproducing normal thyroid physiology.

These studies are like doing placebo injections of saline, versus 5 units MPH insulin in diabetics, finding both groups had very high blood sugars and then concluding that "insulin is no better than placebo."

so there you go. if you are going to do both than to 98% T4 and 2% T3 in a time released formula. that is the best way to have true thyroid like function!

 

[SAD]

Do you really love my seriousness? Hahahaha, I would venture to guess that I could substitute a variety of words for "love" and it would be closer to the truth, lmao. But seriously, , the study doesn't mention whether or not these patients had hypothyroid issues (I would assume they did), but even so, it leaves a ton of questions to be asked. What I do take from that, is that it is exceedingly hard to mimic the body's own thyroid function, and constant monitoring must be done and adjustments made accordingly. The biggest question that it unfortunately does not address, is how each one alone, or together in a combo, affects GH's effects on the body. It's pretty clear that either one, or the combo, would aid in fat-loss, increased energy, and reduction of bloat, but does that come at the sacrifice of it's anabolic effects? THAT is the golden question. I'll give it another few weeks without any thyroid meds, and hopefully the peptides help as well, and then I'll reassess from there.

Thanks for the study though, it DOES reaffirm that thyroid function is almost impossible to exogenously recreate.

 

[SHINE]

your goal is to mainly cut body fat but add a bit of lean mass or at least maintain?

Some good research you posted, nice addition by ATW also.

 

[SAD]

I'm pretty sure the bodyfat will take care of itself, although it's not a major concern of mine. Looking more for LBM maintenance while on PCT and even some growth once I get my natty levels back. So yes, your guess was/is correct. So am I inferring correctly that I should just skip the T3/T4?

 

[SAD]

Alright, quick update. Work is making PCT more difficult than it already is, so my gym time has been consistent but rushed. TID time has been significantly reduced, and sleep is a rare commodity in this last 10 days. Needless to say, lifts have suffered, and so has my physique, but thankfully I'm not too obsessed with how I look, so I'm taking it all in stride. The strength losses are truly disheartening, but I just have to remind myself that this is part of the process of cycling, and that is the negative that I except in order to recover and stay as healthy as possible.

So the peptides have been in now for the last 4 days, and I've altered my GH use accordingly. Here's the new regimen:

NON-WORKOUT DAYS-
Wake-up: 100mcg GHRP-6 with 100mcg GRF1(29) and 7g BCAAs.
25min later: 2iu GH followed immediately by breakfast.
2.5hrs later: Meal 2.
2hrs later: 100mcg GHRP-6 with 100mcg GRF1(29)
30min later: Meal 3
2.5hrs later: Meal 4
2.5hrs later: Meal 5
2hrs later: Small meal
2hrs later: 100mcg GHRP-6 with 100mcg GRF1(29)
20min later: 2iu GH followed immediately by 30g Casein Protein and bed. Halfway through the night when I get up to piss, another 30g casein protein.

WORKOUT DAYS-

Wake-up: Peptides(same doses as always) and 10g BCAAs.
25 min later: Meal 1.
1 hour later: 4iu GH
30 min later: 10iu slin with 30g hydrolyzed whey isolate, 60g Karbolyn, 5g Arginine, 5g glutamine, 7g BCAAs, 12g EAAs, 10g creatine, 2 scoops jack3d.
30 min later: Workout while sipping on 20g Karbolyn, 6g EAAs, and 14g BCAAs.
1hr later: Immediately PWO, peptides.
20min later: 4iu GH immediately followed by 60g hydrolyzed whey isolate, 10g glutamine, 10g creatine.
1hr later: Meal 2
2.5hrs later: Meal 3
2.5hrs later: Meal 4
2.5hrs later: Meal 5
2.5hrs later: Small meal.
2hrs later: Peptides followed by 30g casein protein and bed. Halfway through the night when I get up to piss, another 30g casein protein.




Weight is down to 249lbs from 253lbs on Monday. I think the peptides have helped a certain amount with the bloat. On the thyroid med issue, I've decided that I can't deal with the lethargy anymore, so I'll be starting to run the CEC Low stack from MANPOWER (thanks guys) along with their T4. ATW, I don't think I'll be running a 98% T4 to 2% T3 ratio, but I will be running 225mcg T4 along with the 25mcg T3 in the CEC Low. Hopefully this helps alleviate the severe lethargy that has swamped me this week (no doubt working 100+ hours and sleeping 4-6hrs each night is not helping either). Should get my pack from MANPOWER today (ridiculous t/a) so I'll pop my first dose as soon as it comes in. Will update accordingly.

 

[SHINE]

Your in the ball park with the T-4 and T-3. would be better if you could divide the T-3 up in 12mcg taken every 6 hours. But what you have listed will work.

 

[SAD]

Holy shit! Seriously fucked up right now. My pack from MANPOWER came in about an hour before I was going to workout, so I immediately popped a CEC pill and took 225mcg T4. I wasn't thinking when I took my slin and drank my shake, and I added what I normally do to my shake, which included 2 scoops of Jack3d. BIG MISTAKE!!!! Holy fuck. My heart was racing so bad and pumping so hard in the gym that I quit my workout early and came home. I am still racing like a mother fucker. I will NEVER make that mistake again.

I wish I could split up the T3 Shine, but I can't. But just in case anyone was wondering, the CEC Low stack is the shit! It's a little too much actually but that's because I'm a dumbass and took Jack3d on top of it. Here's a couple pics from after my shortened workout.

249.8lbs on the digital scale at the gym.