DNP, best dieting drug?

Discussion in 'General Weight Loss Discussion' started by Skeletor, Nov 6, 2015.

  1. Mike_RN

    Mike_RN Senior Moderators Staff Member

    Aug 13, 2013
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    DNP doesn't boost metabolism for the sake of clarity. It makes energy production less efficient at the mitochondrial level. Makes the body waste more energy producing energy. It is also muscle sparing. As far as the "self control" point...calorie control is great for maintenance weight but getting under 6-8% without drugs is not that simple.
     
  2. macgyver

    macgyver TID Board Of Directors

    Nov 24, 2011
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    Yes, I am familiar with DNP and it's MOA. As I have read, it up regulates the metabolism, but I have found no reference to it being more lipoprotic or increase fatty acid mobilization. Much like T3 which does not care where the body gets the excess fuel to burn.

    I also dont believe getting to 6-8 is really THAT hard. It just takes the desire to do it. Fat loss is not magic. Run a deficit, you will lose weight. Now your body will start to scream at you to take in more....but if you plan your deficit and stick with it....the fat comes off. You can create that deficit with less intake and or caloric burn. I prefer to eat less and not rely on cardio.

    In fairness, I will add that I have never been to a legit contest shape. (shredded) I'm not a bodybuilding really, so being at that low levels of bodyfat for me are not what I want. But I have no issues hitting and maintaining sub 10% with no cardio or drugs required for fat loss. (And I am not and have never been naturally a lean person). I just run my TRT when cutting. (but I dont crash diet either or run deficits greater than 500 cal, even less as I get really lean) Have spent literally years though with a food scale and counting macros to get to that point though. I now know how to eat to get what ever body comp I want. Not really a big deal.


    To each their own, but I think reliance on drugs for cutting is not necessary unless you let yourself get too out of shape in the offseason.
     
  3. monsoon

    monsoon Senior Bacon VIP

    Nov 1, 2010
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    The leanest I have ever been, 4.5% +or- shredded, was completely natural. I had never even seen a drug. Of course I lost a lot of muscle and was also my lowest adult weight. subsequent attempts with DNP, AAS, etc. Never achieved anything close. Because I was lazy and let the drugs do the work rather than diet.

    that being said, all time best weight/fat loss drug in my experience/opinion, topirimate.
     
  4. Mike_RN

    Mike_RN Senior Moderators Staff Member

    Aug 13, 2013
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    I referred to getting under 6-8% and competing. Eating less calories is also highly catabolic. I get your point and I agree 100% DNP isn't for a guy/girl getting ready for beach weather. That said, for bodybuilding you are never going to hold onto muscle and get below 8% by diet and cardio alone.
     
  5. macgyver

    macgyver TID Board Of Directors

    Nov 24, 2011
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    Mike, first off much respect as I know you are a legit competitor so dont take my disagreement as anything other than a difference of opinion. I agree that eating less can be catabolic, BUT not nearly as much as when you lose weight more slowly (read dont crash diet). Even "naturals" do a good job of holding their mass if they diet right over a longer stretch. Guys who rely more on anabolics let their offseason weight rise too much and then require very large deficits to hit contest shape.

    Here is a study they did on a "natural" pro and his contest prep. He lost 15kg and only 8.8% of that was LBM. He however did not "crash" diet and included 2 carb reefeeds a week. (with carbs being very muscle sparing) But the big take away...was he dieted for 26 weeks! .
    http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2014/06/natural-bb-contest-coverage-20-linear.html

    With the help of anabolics guys can do a great job holding LBM dropping weight in a reasonable manor. (.75% down to .5%bw drop/ week) For a 200lb guy that means less than a lb / week towards the end of diet. Most guys are not committed enough to do this. But it can be done. I have had many friends do it.

    Things like EC, clen, albuterol can actually help as well. They do have a metabolic boost component (but it is small. Something like 175cal / day by running EC). The the muscle sparing and lipoprotic effects are beneficial.

    I dont think pure metabolic boosters like DNP are a necessity. I dont see any evidence that it helps do anything more than burn cals. That equation can be made the same just by eating less in my opinion. With the advantages of using AAS on a cut, the LBM retention is greatly shifted in your favor. I think (if a guy wanted) he could have all the fat loss he wanted with great LBM retention with only mild anabolics and given enough time. If you want to rush it....yea, you are going to need more help.

    Again, just my opinion. It took me a while to figure it all out, but I am now at a point where I stay fairly lean year round solely with intake manipulation. It really is not that hard, but your lifestyle does have to change to do it. For me it was worth it. I have actually been able to hold most all of my strength even at lower body fat levels. But I took about a year to bring myself under 10%-ish.

    Again....much respect to you as a competitor, but I dont see metabolic boosters like DNP or T3 being "required" to get lean. Things like Clen, EC can help (which I dont consider for their metabolic boosting properties) but even they are not a must have if you are patient enough. If you cant tell.... I am a 'less is more' kind of guy in my approach to training and anabolics. But I also respect others right to choose tier own paths as well.
     
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  6. tommyguns2

    tommyguns2 Senior Moderators Staff Member

    Dec 25, 2010
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    I know some guys that can stay very lean throughout the year. However, many of those guys don't have a passion for food like I do. Rather, for them food is simply fuel. So for them they consider what food is the best fuel for them and then they eat it. When I ask whether they like it, they look at me in a confused way, because to them they don't enjoy food. They simply ingest it. It's a means to an end.

    I'm the antithesis of that. Food to me is family, and fun and flavor. I love the smell, the texture and the taste. I like food with alcohol and with my friends. I savor a wonderful meal and love a good dessert. I can't see food as solely fuel. That's almost sacrireligous (sp?) to me. Thus for me, having a diet aid like DNP or phentermine is quite helpful. When I'm dieting I'll pull back on the quantity of the good food I like, and up my cardio a bit to move things in the right direction. Obviously as you further lean out and your body tries to fight back, you have to further manipulate things by making not just the quantity less, but also more clean (e.g., complex carbs vs. simple carbs, or reduced carbs, etc.), and varying the cardio (e.g., a bit more, mixture of aerobic and anaerobic, etc.)

    I don't know if I envy the people who view food solely as fuel. They look great, but they also miss out on how wonderful food can be. Just thinking about it makes me want to go downstairs to the diner in my office building and order and turkey Rueben with onion rings! LOL
     
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  7. htu

    htu VIP Member

    Jan 15, 2012
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    DNP just made me lazy, never wanted to get off the couch...just too tired!
     
  8. tommyguns2

    tommyguns2 Senior Moderators Staff Member

    Dec 25, 2010
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    When I ran the DNP at 500mg/day I felt that way. At 250mg/day, I don't think it's too bad. Still don't want to run low dose in the summer, but December-March is tolerable. I don't run it throughout that entire time, just saying that any time during that time frame is bearable at low dose.
     
  9. IronCore

    IronCore Bigger Than MAYO - VIP

    Sep 9, 2010
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    DNP at 250mg ED, T3 and ECA was the shit... hot and sweaty... but effective and not tired
     
  10. Titan

    Titan VIP Member

    Dec 28, 2010
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    So as you can see from all the answers above...the bottom line in losing weight is: take in less calories than you burn off. Doing this slowly is the most effective way.
    DNP is by far the most unhealthy and most radical means. It is simply not worth the issues involved unless your weight lose will determine if you lose a big contest.
    DNP may help you if you're already in the single digits of body fat and need for professional reasons to lose a few more pounds.
    I don't care what kind of medical degree you claim to have...DNP is not worth it so don't listen to those who say its OK to use.
    I don't care what pill you take to lose weight, none of it will work unless you commit to diet and cut back you caloric intake and in most cases increase your aerobic activities per day.
    Its simple...its not easy.
    Phentermine is the best option.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2015
  11. Mike_RN

    Mike_RN Senior Moderators Staff Member

    Aug 13, 2013
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    I'll assume this was directed at me lol. You then go on to recommend an Amphetamine analogue as safe?
     
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  12. Docd187123

    Docd187123 VIP Member

    Dec 2, 2013
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    The issue with those that compete is that they cannot afford to wait or be patient. They are on a strict time schedule once they decide to do a show and every little bit of difference can mean the difference between first and not even making the top 5. I do agree one can get very lean without drugs but when time is money and endorsements, sponsorships, etc etc are on the line an elite competitor will use every trick at their disposal.

    Also here is some evidence of DNP be muscle sparing:


    Harper JA, Dickinson K and Brand MD (2001) Mitochondrial uncoupling as a target for drug development for the treatment of obesity. Obesity Rev, 2, 255–265
    "In contrast to the use of thyroid extract (also in common use at the time to treat obesity), DNP did not promote urinary nitrogen excretion, so the assumption was made that weight loss could be attributed to a specific loss of fat (47)."


    Bell, Jacques. 1939. Etude biologique des produits dinitres chez l'homme. Medecine. 19:749-54.
    "2. This increase of the metabolism is due mostly to an increase in the combustion of the fat and a little to combustion of carbohydrates.
    3. Dinitrophenol does not attack cell tissue albumin and does not determine the fat loss to the expense of the muscles, contrary to thyroxine.
    ...
    Finally, thyroxine causes a nitrogen malnutrition: it burns the muscle and fatigues the heart. Dinitrophenol-lysidine, to the contrary, causes a lipid-glycemic loss: it is the elimination of reserve materials without attacking visceral and muscle tissue."


    Simkins S 1937 Dinitrophenol and desiccated thyroid in the treatment of
    obesity. JAMA 108:2110–2119
    "The extra energy of metabolism is derived mainly from fat and practically not at all from protein or carbohydrate. Consequently, dinitrophenol in therapeutic dosage produces no breakdown of significant amounts of body protein, even with patients on an inadequate protein intake. This is in marked contrast with the very consdierable increase in nitrogen excretion observed in patients undergoing treatment with thyroid. The fat is used completely and satisfactorily broken down, as no ketone bodies are found in urine. There is a no hyperlipidemia or constant change in the fixed and fatty acids of the blood."


    Cutting WC, Tainter ML. Metabolic actions of dinitrophenol with the use of balanced and unbalanced diets. J Am Med Assoc 1933; 101: 2099–2102.
    "Dinitrophenol, used in doses of therapeutic range,caused increases in metabolism of the usual magnitude irrespective of the type of diet. The nitrogen excretion was never greater than the intake, even when the subjects lost as much as 5 pounds in body weight during one week. From this it seemed probable that there was no actual tissue breakdown during these short periods of heightened metabolism, but that the loss of weight was due to the utilization of stored carbohydrate or fat. This does not mean, of course, that tissue breakdown would not occur if the drug should be given over longer periods, but probably when materials other than protein are available these are utilized first. Thus the assumption might be made that, as long as the protein intake is adequate, any reduction in body weight is not primarily at the expense of the tissue proteins.
    ...
    3.The subjects excreted less nitrogen than they ingested, yet there were definite losses of body weight. Therefore, body proteins probably were not broken down. The output of urinary organic acid was not increased, thus indicating that the fats were completely burned without giving rise to acidosis."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 5, 2016
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