Corona Virus. How much of a threat is it?

[MorganKane]

The "experts" are the ones who decided, for my own good, that steroids should be illegal; that if Vietnam fell, the world would follow; that Saddam Hussein had nukes; and on and on. Pardon me if I don't blindly accept what any of them have to say.

The experts said steroids shouldnt be illegal, its the politicians that made it illegal.
The experts said Saddam didnt have chemical weapons and asked for 6 months to prove it. The politicans decided against it.

So the experts are not getting it wrong, the problem might be who people are considering to be experts.
Shit, people are taking medical advice from the President. That shit is funny too me.

 

[1bigun11]

The experts said steroids shouldnt be illegal, its the politicians that made it illegal.
The experts said Saddam didnt have chemical weapons and asked for 6 months to prove it. The politicans decided against it.

So the experts are not getting it wrong, the problem might be who people are considering to be experts.
Shit, people are taking medical advice from the President. That shit is funny too me.

My point is that I have seen the decisions the government makes, and I have no reason to believe it will act in my best interest. I do not consent to it managing my personal health care, and based on its track record of stupid decisions and lying to me have no idea why it thinks that I would consent to it. I’ll gather my own information as best I can and decide for myself. Why is that such a weird concept in this United States?

 

[enjoy_tren]

The experts said steroids shouldnt be illegal, its the politicians that made it illegal.
The experts said Saddam didnt have chemical weapons and asked for 6 months to prove it. The politicans decided against it.

So the experts are not getting it wrong, the problem might be who people are considering to be experts.
Shit, people are taking medical advice from the President. That shit is funny too me.

The experts did say masks were not needed for the general public and then said they were.

 

[enjoy_tren]

Regarding policy.

I believe the only two things that need to be balanced (in the short term) are the economy and the healthcare system. I don’t think we have a chance at eradicating the virus (New Zealand did do that via a very strict lockdown) in the US without a vaccine.

Whatever the fatality rate. Doesn’t matter. No matter how many asymptotic people. Doesn’t matter. If the healthcare system can function effectively then we should be satisfied with that and keep the economy going (people free to work).

If the healthcare system is becoming overrun, back to lockdown.

The virus is clearly capable of crippling the healthcare system of any city in the USA.

Which is worse:
Financial Ruin
Or
Ruin of your well being?

Hospitals must remain functional, and not just for Covid patients, for everyone.


————

Social distancing and lockdowns obviously work.

You avoid exposure to the pathogen. By staying away from people.

Same way you avoid getting yellow fever: stay away from a specific type of mosquitoe.

That’s common sense.

What I think you were asking is “what would have happened if we did not go on lockdown? Wouldn’t we have been just fine?”

That’s an aternate reality question. Kind of like “what would my life have been like if I married another person?”. You’ll never know. You can speculate and that’s about it.

first we need to establish what side the burden of proof is on to provide the data that quarantining a healthy population will stop the spread of the disease. It's not the populations responsibility to provide evidence it doesnt work, it lies squarely on the side that says we need to invoke an action that is borderline unconstitutional and deprive 328 million people of life and liberty to avoid further spread. Just like the court system has to provide evidence of guilt before stripping an indidvivual of their freedom so is the same in this case. There has never been a time in history of the united states where a healthy population has had to face quarantine, so at the end of the day its a wild guess on the part of the "experts" and as you said "based on feelings".

You are correct about one thing which is we will see what kind of effect it has had. My money is on Sweden . You will see a massive amount of initial deaths and it will taper off and the population will build herd immunity. Reports are the general population there have a 25-30% immunity rate. The swedes introduced the world to greta thunberg, this is their shot at redemption!

You mentioned new zealand. A couple of things regarding that example....for starters its a small secluded island with no neighbors. That situation doesnt apply to 90% of the world. They dont risk people just casually walking over their borders. Secondly, the first case of the virus was in end of February. They were able to isolate the patient. In other countries you will be able to facilitate contact tracing via different methods, but not in the united states. I'm willing to bet you wont get more than 20% of the population willing to download the app that is proposed.

Lastly, I would like to point out your stance on crippling the healthcare system. If that is your presepective then I would suggest isolating regions based on hospital utilization. It would have been a better alternative to a complete lockdown of pretty much the whole country. You would still have fellow countrymen employed and building herd immunity in the process.

 

[1bigun11]

The experts did say masks were not needed for the general public and then said they were.

One thing about true experts. They easily admit when they don’t know something and have a very hard time being called experts. On the other hand, false experts love to be called experts and have a very hard time admitting that they don’t know something.

 

[MorganKane]

The experts did say masks were not needed for the general public and then said they were.

yes, situations change so conditions change, time change and it leads to new information, new conditions, etc.
But experts across the world recommended them from the beginning.

Experts gets shit wrong too, but not nearly as often as non experts.
If you are having brain surgery are you asking a brain surgeon for advice or a general practice doctor, a journalist or perhaps the President?

 

[MorganKane]

first we need to establish what side the burden of proof is on to provide the data that quarantining a healthy population will stop the spread of the disease. It's not the populations responsibility to provide evidence it doesnt work, it lies squarely on the side that says we need to invoke an action that is borderline unconstitutional and deprive 328 million people of life and liberty to avoid further spread. Just like the court system has to provide evidence of guilt before stripping an indidvivual of their freedom so is the same in this case. There has never been a time in history of the united states where a healthy population has had to face quarantine, so at the end of the day its a wild guess on the part of the "experts" and as you said "based on feelings".

You are correct about one thing which is we will see what kind of effect it has had. My money is on Sweden . You will see a massive amount of initial deaths and it will taper off and the population will build herd immunity. Reports are the general population there have a 25-30% immunity rate. The swedes introduced the world to greta thunberg, this is their shot at redemption!

You mentioned new zealand. A couple of things regarding that example....for starters its a small secluded island with no neighbors. That situation doesnt apply to 90% of the world. They dont risk people just casually walking over their borders. Secondly, the first case of the virus was in end of February. They were able to isolate the patient. In other countries you will be able to facilitate contact tracing via different methods, but not in the united states. I'm willing to bet you wont get more than 20% of the population willing to download the app that is proposed.

Lastly, I would like to point out your stance on crippling the healthcare system. If that is your presepective then I would suggest isolating regions based on hospital utilization. It would have been a better alternative to a complete lockdown of pretty much the whole country. You would still have fellow countrymen employed and building herd immunity in the process.

Whos life got deprived by the lockdown?

Social distancing vs no social distancing.
Norway vs Sweden.
Two very similar countries
Norway has 5.5 mil - Sweden has 10.2 mil people. Or close to those numbers.

Norway did social distancing, Sweden did not.
Norway has 7,738 cases with 207 deaths.
Sweden has 21,092 cases with 2,586 deaths.

So Sweden has 3 times the cases and 12 times the deaths.

Its too early to tell where Sweden will end up, I think that will take a year to know since they might have more die now but develop heard immunity quicker than Norway.

Some claim Sweden is having success but I dont want to call those numbers success at this point. If you look at Denmark and Finland who also did social distancing you see numbers much closer to Norway than Sweden.

Swedens economy hasnt taken as big of a hit as Norway so its successful that way but not sure if thats how we should measure success in this case.

Saw a clip from an American living in Wuhan recently, he said they expect a second wave to hit. Time will tell how this will play out.

Im tired of this shit, can't open up fast enough but it must not happen to fast.

 

[FlyingDragon]

Even so called experts will have opposing views.

 

[MorganKane]

Even so called experts will have opposing views.

True but they back it with their data instead of non experts who backs it with emotions.
Most of the real expertise in this case are on the same page. Just look outside US and you will learn a lot.

 

[rawdeal]

One thing about true experts. They easily admit when they don’t know something and have a very hard time being called experts. On the other hand, false experts love to be called experts and have a very hard time admitting that they don’t know something.

Biggie, you cynical, suspicious old fart, you.

I for one choose to trust all elected officials and business people who have something to gain by shaping my opinions. Goes for media outlets too. That way of thinking got us to where we are today, so why change now?

 

[enjoy_tren]

Whos life got deprived by the lockdown?

Social distancing vs no social distancing.
Norway vs Sweden.
Two very similar countries
Norway has 5.5 mil - Sweden has 10.2 mil people. Or close to those numbers.

Norway did social distancing, Sweden did not.
Norway has 7,738 cases with 207 deaths.
Sweden has 21,092 cases with 2,586 deaths.

So Sweden has 3 times the cases and 12 times the deaths.

Its too early to tell where Sweden will end up, I think that will take a year to know since they might have more die now but develop heard immunity quicker than Norway.

Some claim Sweden is having success but I dont want to call those numbers success at this point. If you look at Denmark and Finland who also did social distancing you see numbers much closer to Norway than Sweden.

Swedens economy hasnt taken as big of a hit as Norway so its successful that way but not sure if thats how we should measure success in this case.

Saw a clip from an American living in Wuhan recently, he said they expect a second wave to hit. Time will tell how this will play out.

Im tired of this shit, can't open up fast enough but it must not happen to fast.

Who's life got deprived? Thats pretty obvious, the millions of americans not getting a paycheck. The thousands of business owners forced out of business because they couldnt operate their business of a 1/4 of the year while still paying out fixed costs. Thats who.

 

[enjoy_tren]

yes, situations change so conditions change, time change and it leads to new information, new conditions, etc.
But experts across the world recommended them from the beginning.

Experts gets shit wrong too, but not nearly as often as non experts.
If you are having brain surgery are you asking a brain surgeon for advice or a general practice doctor, a journalist or perhaps the President?

oh cmon now! what new information did the "experts" get that led to a change of heart on masks? They knew exactly what it does and doesnt do well before this whole thing started.