Calories and when the system hates carnivore

[WhiteApe]

Fat was almost flat (75–80 g → ~78–82 g) which was dramatically down (42% - ~33%). Protein showed a tiny increase (~70 g - ~78 g). Carbohydrates had a massive increase from 42% -52–55%. Every single one of the extra ~400 kcal/day — came from carbohydrates (refined flour + added sugars). So yes there were extra calories taken in but had the increase been in protein we know the extra calories does not cause the same effect. Instead of the low fat message we were given, the explosion of cheap, hyper-palatable, low-fat/high-carb processed foods (fat-free cookies, sugary cereals, soda, pasta, bagels, etc.) caused people to eat more total calories than ever before, while the macronutrient that increased was the one most likely to drive fat storage in the average person: refined carbohydrates. Had we left it alone or maybe even pushed eating more protein, this may not have never happened. The food guide pyramid is wrong because it has us consuming themajority of our calories from carbohydrates. Wash't so long ago that Jose Antonio (PhD, Nova Southeastern University) had led several landmark studies showing that overfeeding on protein (~800kcal +) does not lead to fat gain—and often improves body composition—in resistance-trained individuals. These studies directly challenge the "a calorie is a calorie" dogma by demonstrating protein's unique metabolic effects (high TEF, poor storage as fat, and partitioning toward lean mass).

The effects of consuming a high protein diet (4.4 g/kg/d) on body composition in resistance-trained individuals - Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition

Background The consumption of dietary protein is important for resistance-trained individuals. It has been posited that intakes of 1.4 to 2.0 g/kg/day are needed for physically active individuals. Thus, the purpose of this investigation was to determine the effects of a very high protein diet...

jissn.biomedcentral.com

The Effects of Overfeeding on Body Composition: The Role of Macronutrient Composition - A Narrative Review

International Journal of Exercise Science 10(8): 1275-1296, 2017. Compared to investigations on hypocaloric diets, the effects of chronic overfeeding have been less studied. It has been posited that consuming calories in excess of daily caloric requirements will result in a gain in body weight...

digitalcommons.wku.edu

I definitely agree with you, I don't care how people eat.

I agree with the protein overfeeding and it being very likely to not add fat gain. I believe Don Layman has research that also shows this.

You mention that fat intake was almost flat but also mentioned it was dramatically down. I assume I missed this data in the overall post and that in 1971-1974 it was down from decades prior. My comments were based on the table of 1971-2000 which showed fat intake level, protein slightly up, and carbs drastically increase.

This conversation gave me the urge to order a used copy of "The Big Fat Surprise" off amazon to reread.

 

[gunslinger]

@gunslinger There are many interesting anecdotes. I personally think many different "diets" can work and satiety, adherence, and consistency play a large role.

For Clarification I define the following as:
Keto - high fat, low carb, moderate protein. Plants/fiber are still a large part
Carnivore - no plants
Meat based - Isn't keto but still allows plants and limited starchy carbs

Carb cycling "works" for me, but it is difficult to adhere to. Being lower in fat most days can make my cravings for fattier food knock me off my day. And because I have high carb days, the days where I am basically meat based, I sometimes binge on carbs in the evening and then that whole day was ruined. I know it's mostly mental but the back-and-forth thing kind of sucks.

Questions:
1. How has your performance been affected? Endurance, Strength, Size, etc
2. How's your GI tract? How long did it take to be okay?
3. How long to lose the carb cravings?
4. Any bad BO or "keto breath"?
5. What issues did it fix and did any new issues arise?

Thank you, sir.

1. Until my neck injury last year performance had gone up. Endurance way up, Strength about the same, size? Well I did drop 50 pounds so of course size went down. The goal was to be healthy not try to be Mr O at 49 years old.
2. All gut issues went away completely. Took about a month. I have zero bloating, no gas...at all. Before Carnivore I though pain, gas and constipation were just a fact of life.
3. About 3 months for the cravings to go away.
4. BO is the same and the keto breath went away after about 4-6 weeks
5. Well I lost weight so my knees are very thankful, BP went from 180/120 to 140/70, Resting heart rate went from 99 BPM to 68, Arthritis pain down about 70-80%, as stated gut issues all gone, skin cleared up, brain fog gone, energy levels way up and consistent.

 

[Bigtex]

I agree with the protein overfeeding and it being very likely to not add fat gain. I believe Don Layman has research that also shows this.

You mention that fat intake was almost flat but also mentioned it was dramatically down. I assume I missed this data in the overall post and that in 1971-1974 it was down from decades prior. My comments were based on the table of 1971-2000 which showed fat intake level, protein slightly up, and carbs drastically increase.

This conversation gave me the urge to order a used copy of "The Big Fat Surprise" off amazon to reread.

If you look at the table again, fat was mostly flat and in the late 80's it started to fall, which ended up below baseline. Protein was just above baseline. Obesity and Type II diebetes also rose at a huge rate around the time fat slightly dropped. Now, how closely did people follow goverment recommendations......the low-fat, high-carb movement from the 1970s through the early 2000s wasn’t just “big”… it dominated nutrition policy, food manufacturing, public health messaging, and weight-loss culture for over 30 years. Food manufacturers reformulated nearly everything: Low-fat yogurt, fat-free cookies, low-fat salad dressing, low-fat cereals and granola bars and fat-free cheese, ice cream, mayo, and even peanut butter. We even got rid of butter and developed margarine ( how did that work out). Fat adds flavor to foods, so to replace the missing fat, companies added refined carbs and sugar, which ironically worsened obesity and insulin resistance. Americans were continually fed a huge portion or propaganda: “Fat makes you fat.” “Eat low-fat for heart health.” “Heart Healthy” check mark for low-fat, high-carb foods. The food pyramid (1992) put carbs as the base at 6–11 servings/day. Further, in 1977 the Senate’s McGovern Committee pushed out national dietary advice urging Americans to: eat less fat and eat more carbohydrates. The food industry around the same time 1975-1985 high fructose corn syrup started to be added to foods to further make things worse. After all corn was a lot cheaper than sugar.

In short, the metabolic consequences of 30 years of low-fat, high-carbohydrate eating (1970s–2000s) were enormous — and they shaped the modern epidemics of obesity, type 2 diabetes, metabolic syndrome, and cardiovascular disease.

I remember doing my master's degree in nutrition and my professor pushed off a diet of 65-70% carbs, 20%fat and 10-15% protein. We were taught that high protein caused kidney damage, fat made you fat and the food guide pyramid was the holy grail of nutrition. My professor laughed at me when I asked questions about the Mauro DiPasquale's Anabolic diet and said that was a heart attack waiting to happen. Lots has changed since then but still the same stuff is being taught and doctors keep repeating the same old news. In that same time period we had vegetable oils (PUFAs) pushed on us and still in all grocery stores the majority of the oils there are in the middle where most of us psychologically look for products. It has to find MUFAs which we know now are a much healther choice.

Look at the timing:

• Low-fat guidelines (1977)
• Food Pyramid (1992)
• Explosion of low-fat, high-sugar products (1980s–1990s)
• Obesity rates skyrocket starting RIGHT THEN

The US obesity rate:

• 1970: ~15%
• 2000: ~31%
• 2025: ~42%

* Notably, the curve changes slope at the exact time low-fat eating became mainstream.
* High-carb ultra-processed foods created a metabolic environment where fat gain was far easier.

 

[Ron OG Mouse]

This is 100% true. I have clients who travel for business or leisure to Europe and when they ask me about their nutrition plan, I just tell them to eat whatever they want. Not once has one of them actually gained weight eating food in Europe. NOT FUCKING ONCE! They eat all the food they want and come back leaner than when they left. Food quality is just so much better.

The wife and I are considering retiring to Portugal. The Shrimp are the size of lobster and taste amazing. Everyone walks everywhere. That's another thing about the US. We will get in our cars to drive 1 mile to the store. The last time we were in europe we walked 8 miles a day.

 

[genetic freak]

The wife and I are considering retiring to Portugal. The Shrimp are the size of lobster and taste amazing. Everyone walks everywhere. That's another thing about the US. We will get in our cars to drive 1 mile to the store. The last time we were in europe we walked 8 miles a day.

Exactly! Everyone says they are hitting 15k or more steps per day and it isn't like it is flat.