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Apple tells Feds to pound sand

FlyingDragon

FlyingDragon

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Nov 4, 2010
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Apple has an image to protect along with protecting their share price and customer share in the marketplace.....If they cave in they will lose marketshare and their stock will suffer even more so than in the past few months....I am against giving the Feds access, the people involved are in hell and there is nothing else to really gain.
 
wesleyinman

wesleyinman

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Jan 9, 2014
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While I think you might be somewhat correct, Apple has done this before. When Google, Yahoo, FB and MS all said they would gladly just hand over info, Apple has told the Feds to eat it, no pun intended. So, they seem to have a lot of consistency on the topic.

I understand your thought process and it's fair.

I just want everyone to think about this. The gov't in this case can use the "National Security" context in order to retrieve any information they want, minus a warrant, etc. We all know that, right??

So why are they choosing not to use this in this case? Why are they not going in and taking the information??
 
FlyingDragon

FlyingDragon

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Nov 4, 2010
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I understand your thought process and it's fair.

I just want everyone to think about this. The gov't in this case can use the "National Security" context in order to retrieve any information they want, minus a warrant, etc. We all know that, right??

So why are they choosing not to use this in this case? Why are they not going in and taking the information??

If what your saying is true, what is the Government not telling us in this case? I tend to believe there is more details that have not been released....
 
S

schultz1

Bangs Raiden's mom VIP
Jan 3, 2011
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Im all for what apple is doing. Fvck the government. Like mentioned above, they have to have some tech hacker that can get them what they need.
 
tommyguns2

tommyguns2

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Dec 25, 2010
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This has been an extremely interesting conversation. I appreciate everyone's inputs and that it hasn't devolved into anyone getting trashed.

It's my understanding that the gov't is asking Apple for a key that already exists, they're asking Apple to generate a new operating system for that phone that allows them to get in. How exactly can the gov't force a company to do work for them (absent the nation at war like in WWII)? Also, even if they could write that software, I do they get the new code onto the phone so as to get in, when they're locked out at this point? That has me confused.

I think Apple's concern is their reputation on privacy, and also that once the S/W has been created, there is nothing to prevent that code from getting out. I'm sure somebody in the gov't or some bad guys would be willing to pay an Apple employee a LOT of money for a copy of that software.
 
D

Docd187123

MuscleHead
Dec 2, 2013
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This has been an extremely interesting conversation. I appreciate everyone's inputs and that it hasn't devolved into anyone getting trashed.

It's my understanding that the gov't is asking Apple for a key that already exists, they're asking Apple to generate a new operating system for that phone that allows them to get in. How exactly can the gov't force a company to do work for them (absent the nation at war like in WWII)? Also, even if they could write that software, I do they get the new code onto the phone so as to get in, when they're locked out at this point? That has me confused.

I think Apple's concern is their reputation on privacy, and also that once the S/W has been created, there is nothing to prevent that code from getting out. I'm sure somebody in the gov't or some bad guys would be willing to pay an Apple employee a LOT of money for a copy of that software.

Apple CEO Tim Cook's letter to Apple customers



Customer Letter - Apple from Apple CEO Tim Cook:


February 16, 2016


A Message to Our Customers


The United States government has demanded that Apple take an unprecedented step which threatens the security of our customers. We oppose this order, which has implications far beyond the legal case at hand.


This moment calls for public discussion, and we want our customers and people around the country to understand what is at stake.


The Need for Encryption
Smartphones, led by iPhone, have become an essential part of our lives. People use them to store an incredible amount of personal information, from our private conversations to our photos, our music, our notes, our calendars and contacts, our financial information and health data, even where we have been and where we are going.


All that information needs to be protected from hackers and criminals who want to access it, steal it, and use it without our knowledge or permission. Customers expect Apple and other technology companies to do everything in our power to protect their personal information, and at Apple we are deeply committed to safeguarding their data.


Compromising the security of our personal information can ultimately put our personal safety at risk. That is why encryption has become so important to all of us.


For many years, we have used encryption to protect our customers’ personal data because we believe it’s the only way to keep their information safe. We have even put that data out of our own reach, because we believe the contents of your iPhone are none of our business.


The San Bernardino Case
We were shocked and outraged by the deadly act of terrorism in San Bernardino last December. We mourn the loss of life and want justice for all those whose lives were affected. The FBI asked us for help in the days following the attack, and we have worked hard to support the government’s efforts to solve this horrible crime. We have no sympathy for terrorists.


When the FBI has requested data that’s in our possession, we have provided it. Apple complies with valid subpoenas and search warrants, as we have in the San Bernardino case. We have also made Apple engineers available to advise the FBI, and we’ve offered our best ideas on a number of investigative options at their disposal.


We have great respect for the professionals at the FBI, and we believe their intentions are good. Up to this point, we have done everything that is both within our power and within the law to help them. But now the U.S. government has asked us for something we simply do not have, and something we consider too dangerous to create. They have asked us to build a backdoor to the iPhone.


Specifically, the FBI wants us to make a new version of the iPhone operating system, circumventing several important security features, and install it on an iPhone recovered during the investigation. In the wrong hands, this software — which does not exist today — would have the potential to unlock any iPhone in someone’s physical possession.


The FBI may use different words to describe this tool, but make no mistake: Building a version of iOS that bypasses security in this way would undeniably create a backdoor. And while the government may argue that its use would be limited to this case, there is no way to guarantee such control.


The Threat to Data Security
Some would argue that building a backdoor for just one iPhone is a simple, clean-cut solution. But it ignores both the basics of digital security and the significance of what the government is demanding in this case.


In today’s digital world, the “key” to an encrypted system is a piece of information that unlocks the data, and it is only as secure as the protections around it. Once the information is known, or a way to bypass the code is revealed, the encryption can be defeated by anyone with that knowledge.


The government suggests this tool could only be used once, on one phone. But that’s simply not true. Once created, the technique could be used over and over again, on any number of devices. In the physical world, it would be the equivalent of a master key, capable of opening hundreds of millions of locks — from restaurants and banks to stores and homes. No reasonable person would find that acceptable.


The government is asking Apple to hack our own users and undermine decades of security advancements that protect our customers — including tens of millions of American citizens — from sophisticated hackers and cybercriminals. The same engineers who built strong encryption into the iPhone to protect our users would, ironically, be ordered to weaken those protections and make our users less safe.


We can find no precedent for an American company being forced to expose its customers to a greater risk of attack. For years, cryptologists and national security experts have been warning against weakening encryption. Doing so would hurt only the well-meaning and law-abiding citizens who rely on companies like Apple to protect their data. Criminals and bad actors will still encrypt, using tools that are readily available to them.


A Dangerous Precedent
Rather than asking for legislative action through Congress, the FBI is proposing an unprecedented use of the All Writs Act of 1789 to justify an expansion of its authority.


The government would have us remove security features and add new capabilities to the operating system, allowing a passcode to be input electronically. This would make it easier to unlock an iPhone by “brute force,” trying thousands or millions of combinations with the speed of a modern computer.


The implications of the government’s demands are chilling. If the government can use the All Writs Act to make it easier to unlock your iPhone, it would have the power to reach into anyone’s device to capture their data. The government could extend this breach of privacy and demand that Apple build surveillance software to intercept your messages, access your health records or financial data, track your location, or even access your phone’s microphone or camera without your knowledge.


Opposing this order is not something we take lightly. We feel we must speak up in the face of what we see as an overreach by the U.S. government.


We are challenging the FBI’s demands with the deepest respect for American democracy and a love of our country. We believe it would be in the best interest of everyone to step back and consider the implications.


While we believe the FBI’s intentions are good, it would be wrong for the government to force us to build a backdoor into our products. And ultimately, we fear that this demand would undermine the very freedoms and liberty our government is meant to protect.


Tim Cook
 
trentracks

trentracks

TID Board Of Directors
Apr 23, 2011
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No matter how you slice this pie, if the government succeeds in getting this back door, it will eventually get a back door into all encryption, and our world, as we know it, is over. In spite of the FBI’s claim that it would protect the back door, we all know that’s impossible. There are bad apples everywhere, and there only needs to be in the US government. Then a few million dollars, some beautiful women (or men), and a yacht trip to the Caribbean might be all it takes for our enemies to have full access to our secrets.
 
wesleyinman

wesleyinman

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Jan 9, 2014
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If what your saying is true, what is the Government not telling us in this case? I tend to believe there is more details that have not been released....

I agree. I'd like to know too.

I think anyone rationale can agree..they use the term "National Security" only when they please. Only when it fits what they are trying to do.

Just like they are calling this Workplace Violence. Call it what it is. This is the reason 70%+ of the US feels that Big Gov't in the US is the Biggest Threat to National Security-
 
graniteman

graniteman

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Dec 31, 2011
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Apple has an image to protect along with protecting their share price and customer share in the marketplace.....If they cave in they will lose marketshare and their stock will suffer even more so than in the past few months....I am against giving the Feds access, the people involved are in hell and there is nothing else to really gain.

I doubt it will effect their share pricing, the vast majority of users are unaware of this encryption and like the I-pnone for it's features and cultish use. As a share holder I really don't care about political fights, I want my money to make money. Cook is a freak and needs to get the boot. This has the potential to swing either way , much like you and @schultz1.

You're dead wrong on the last part as ''they're in hell and not much to be gained'' . They were in contact with others, his wife especially. Almost CERTAIN there are past comm's and info to glean from the records.
I'm for APPLE giving them all the records and NOT the key.

Side note: THIS IS what we get for allowing these f'n goat humping moslems into Our Country. Every Country on Earth infected with these animal like cockroaches is experiencing this crap. Round 'em all up and send them packing. Moslems played no part building this Country like OsamaObama stated. Exactly the opposite, we fought them from our inception until Our Marines went and laid a ass woopin on them
 
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Swiper

Swiper

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Jan 8, 2011
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I doubt it will effect their share pricing, the vast majority of users are unaware of this encryption and like the I-pnone for it's features and cultish use. As a share holder I really don't care about political fights, I want my money to make money. Cook is a freak and needs to get the boot. This has the potential to swing either way , much like you and @schultz1.

You're dead wrong on the last part as ''they're in hell and not much to be gained'' . They were in contact with others, his wife especially. Almost CERTAIN there are past comm's and info to glean from the records.
I'm for APPLE giving them all the records and NOT the key.

Side note: THIS IS what we get for allowing these f'n goat humping moslems into Our Country. Every Country on Earth infected with these animal like cockroaches is experiencing this crap. Round 'em all up and send them packing. Moslems played no part building this Country like OsamaObama stated. Exactly the opposite, we fought them from our inception until Our Marines went and laid a ass woopin on them

apple would have to invent new software to do with the feds want. who's gonna pay for the engineering,research , development ect.. to create this new software?

so just to be clear, you're not suggesting the government forces Apple to create a new product right? that would be just as crazy as the government mandating you to buy a product from a private company. oh wait never mind silly me, they already do, its called Obamacare!
 
RAIDEN

RAIDEN

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Feb 22, 2012
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I heard more on this today. I will attempt to repeat it... in a nutshell. The records or data that the feds want are from 10/19/16 (might be off a day or two, or three.) till the day of shooting. On or around 10/19/16 there was a ios update for Apple and from what I understand, they want to know who Farooq was in contact with from that date until shooting.

I don't know why they just can't go to the service carrier he was using Verizon, Sprint etc and get every text and phone call made for those dates. I'm sure I'm missing something along those lines, but still.
 
monsoon

monsoon

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Nov 1, 2010
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They are looking for what's in the phone itself, not the incoming and outgoing data. Unlike androids, you can't just dump an iPhone on cellbrite. Part of the reason I have an iPhone.
 
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