A fun experiment

[gunslinger]

What really got me started on this was a chart at the local gym around 2011. The chart posted next to the leg press machine said that if you are 213 lbs (my weight at that time) you HAVE to be taking in a minimum of 3,500 calories per day to maintain that weight. I questioned the Gym owner/personal trainer about this. I told him at that time I had not eaten much over 1,800 calories daily in almost a year. (School, work, life stuff in the way) and just like the ass holes here and elsewhere his reply was "Oh, you just don't know how to calculate your calories"

Calculating calories is not rocket science. The body is far more complex than that. See the post by test above. And thats only a small part of it. To believe 3,000 calories of pizza and beer will have the same effect on weight as 3,000 calories of boiled chicken breast is fucking retarded.


Breakfast this morning: Coffee, donut, (340 calories) two bowls of coco pebbles (4cups 560 calories) Total 900 calories. Used 2% milk

 

[The other Snake]

Before I dive in I need to verify something. You're 200 lbs and take in 4,800 cal a day? This is a weight lifting forum, I think the marathon runner forum is the next room over. lol

 

[3BG]

What really got me started on this was a chart at the local gym around 2011. The chart posted next to the leg press machine said that if you are 213 lbs (my weight at that time) you HAVE to be taking in a minimum of 3,500 calories per day to maintain that weight. I questioned the Gym owner/personal trainer about this. I told him at that time I had not eaten much over 1,800 calories daily in almost a year. (School, work, life stuff in the way) and just like the ass holes here and elsewhere his reply was "Oh, you just don't know how to calculate your calories"

Calculating calories is not rocket science. The body is far more complex than that. See the post by test above. And thats only a small part of it. To believe 3,000 calories of pizza and beer will have the same effect on weight as 3,000 calories of boiled chicken breast is fucking retarded.


Breakfast this morning: Coffee, donut, (340 calories) two bowls of coco pebbles (4cups 560 calories) Total 900 calories. Used 2% milk

Broiled chicken breast at least has protein. Pizza and beer, not so much.

You’re really oversimplifying in your experiment

if you want to set up the experiment better, keep your macros the same as you typically have them but fill the macro requirements with junk shitty food and lower the calories by 1,500.

Simple example would be substituting French fries for rice as carbs. Or donuts for oatmeal at breakfast. That doesn’t mean you abandon protein and eat nothing but fats and carbs.

 

[gunslinger]

Before I dive in I need to verify something. You're 200 lbs and take in 4,800 cal a day? This is a weight lifting forum, I think the marathon runner forum is the next room over. lol

Had to increase to over 5,000 to stop the weight loss when I was eating all protein. I maintain 200 at 4,000-4,500 per day with a cheat day per week. When I was 240 I was eating just over 3,000 per day with carbs and protein.

 

[gunslinger]

Update:

About 6 days in to eating whatever I want (while being careful to be in a caloric deficit) Starting weight was 200lbs even. I feel ok so far, but I have noticed I'm getting hungry all the time. I expected this from the sugar. I'm a little bloated. Weight is 211.4 this morning.

 

[Massive G]

Had to increase to over 5,000 to stop the weight loss when I was eating all protein. I maintain 200 at 4,000-4,500 per day with a cheat day per week. When I was 240 I was eating just over 3,000 per day with carbs and protein.

Ten years ago I lost 50 lbs in less than 3 months I cut my calories in half from 7000 to around 3500. I went from 295 to just under 250. All I ate was egg whites oatmeal almonds and apple for snacks chicken and rice for 3 other meals with tons of broccoli. Probably less than 300 grams of carbs. I called it my 90s diet protein low fat very moderate carbs and veggies. Reading your post above reminded me that I needed to eat more protein for more cals. I did zero cardio and changed nothing training wise. Just got sick of the visceral fat and winged it. Dieting is so much easier when you are motivated nothing could make me break it at the time.

 

[macgyver]

@gunslinger did not read the entire thread. But you mentioned eating breakfast cereal.

Many breakfast cereals have 100% RDA iron PER SERVING. Most people eat 2+ servings in a 'normal' bowl. You can easily be exceeding your iron intake you used to have with beef with eating fortified cereals.

Why are you trying to bring down with diet, and why not just donate regularly? Seems strange to me as well as your diet choices. Are you the guy that was talking about the benefits of that 'cave man' diet or whatever that fad diet was at the time?

Also if you are 211 I have a hard time believing you are eating the cals you say. Unless you are say a mail man who walks 15 miles a day or something nuts. Do you work an extremally physical job?

There is some study that shows grapefruit (specifically naringin) lowers hemocrit. This may be something to consider, but donation is usually advised regardless.

Ingestion of grapefruit lowers elevated hematocrits in human subjects - PubMed

This study was based on in vitro observations that naringin isolated from grapefruit induced red cell aggregation and evidence that clumped red cells are removed from the circulation by phagocytosis. The effect on hematocrits of adding grapefruit to the daily diet was determined using 36 human...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[MR. BMJ]

I didn't want to post on this thread as it has gone more personal.....BUT....I agree with R1R0's advice, but I wish he'd be less aggressive on making his point. I think this has carried on from a different post where there was tension of sort, but a lot is loss when the tone and demeanor gets out of hand and personal. I agree with his reasonings.

That said, if you want to keep doing what you are doing and like it, then go right ahead. I don't agree with the reasoning behind it, but you are the one doing it, and if you enjoy it and makes you feel better, then keep on keeping on. I'd recommend that you keep his advice in mind, even if you despise the guy. Good advice is good advice, even from those you dislike or get under your skin.

Good luck on whatever path you take though.

 

[macgyver]

A few people on here have argued with me to no end that a calorie is a calorie. Macros do not matter.. And one went so far as to say his friend got ripped for competition by eating nothing but krispy creme donuts and popeyes fried chicken. (he provided pics of said friend) Their exact quote is "if you are in a caloric deficit you will lose and if you are in a surplus you will gain, macros do not matter" and this is provably bullshit as a few hear already know. I've lost on over 5,000 and got fatter on 1,500. There is a limit in either direction but to say its all about calories and Macros don't matter is stupid at best. The kinds of foods you are eating are THE most important thing, not the total calories. This has always been my argument. So I have gone from eating over 4,000 cals per day all meat and eggs a

Wow....that is the funniest thing I have ever heard. It was me. And yes a calorie is a calorie (for all intensive purposes). While there are things like thermic differences, and yes at a micro level, it is not really a calorie is a calorie, but within our ability to track it might was well be.

A great analogy is the difference between Newtonian mechanics and Quantum mechanics in physics. For hundreds of years we lived in a universe where we used Newtonian mechanics to understand our world. But Newtons laws break down at a sub-atomic level. Nothing actually travels in a straight line. Everything moves in waves. But for practical purposes we still use Newtons laws to describe things. Like Force=Mass x Acceleration. It is used all the time. However it is not truly accurate. BUT it is accurate enough that for PRACTICAL purposes it works. Newtonian mechanics is accurate enough to land you on the moon, yet I could say it is not valid.

Same thing with all the BS people want to split hairs on saying a cal is not a cal. Yes it is. For as good as one can measure it might as well be. But true that technically it is not. The margins we are talking about are almost insignificant.

 

[macgyver]

A good basic overview for the readers on this:

6 Reasons Why a Calorie Is Not a Calorie

Some believe that all calories are created equal and that the sources of those calories don't matter. Here are 6 reasons why that is completely false.

www.healthline.com

Much of what the article you posted does nothing to disprove the statement 'a calorie is a calorie.

Assuming one is eating a 'CONTROLLED' diet and not not just shoving whatever you FEEL like in your mouth wipes out over half his agruments.

Point 1) Fructose vs Glucose Again...talking about how one 'feels' Gherlin...etc. Well if you only leave so many simple carbs in your diet, and you stop when you have eaten them, this point is invalid.
As to the hormonal effect (barring severe metabolic disorder), there have been plenty of study that showing in a deficit, it does not matter where your carbs come from in regards to fat loss. In one study, they literally replaced ALL the daily carbs with Sucrose! Given the standard intake, the pure sugar lost fat as same rate as the complex carb group.

Point 2) Thermic effect. There is a thermic effect, however it is not as significant as portrayed in the numbers. None of us eat purely any macro. We eat a mix of carbs, fats, and protein at every meal. This has an impact upon the processing of the food and diminishes said thermic effect. It is still there and can be measured in a calorimeter, but it ends up being too small to track within your macros to make a difference.

Point 3) Protein kills appetite. AGAIN, how you FEEL. If you are eating a standardized controlled diet, this point makes no difference.

Point 4) Satiety Index. AGAIN, how you feel. Means NOTHING to say against a calorie is a calorie per cal ingested.

Point 5)Low-Carb Diets Lead to Automatic Calorie Restriction ANOTHER how you FEEL. If you plan macros and have a controlled intake, this means nothing.

Point 6) Glycemic Index. Pretty much bunk science and calculated in a way no one eats. Glycemic LOAD is actually the important part. AGAIN, if you are controlling intake, this means NOTHING.



That whole article is poorly written and the only truly valid point it touches upon to dispute A CALORIE IS A CALORIE is thermic effect. That alone is a very weak argument. There are many things that can be measured in a lab environment, that dont have much true significance on real world results. This is one one them

 

[gunslinger]

Ten years ago I lost 50 lbs in less than 3 months I cut my calories in half from 7000 to around 3500. I went from 295 to just under 250. All I ate was egg whites oatmeal almonds and apple for snacks chicken and rice for 3 other meals with tons of broccoli. Probably less than 300 grams of carbs. I called it my 90s diet protein low fat very moderate carbs and veggies. Reading your post above reminded me that I needed to eat more protein for more cals. I did zero cardio and changed nothing training wise. Just got sick of the visceral fat and winged it. Dieting is so much easier when you are motivated nothing could make me break it at the time.

Yep, exact opposite of what I did. I went from eating the SAD to all meat and almost doubled the total calories and lost 51 pounds in about 6 months.

 

[gunslinger]

@gunslinger did not read the entire thread. But you mentioned eating breakfast cereal.

Many breakfast cereals have 100% RDA iron PER SERVING. Most people eat 2+ servings in a 'normal' bowl. You can easily be exceeding your iron intake you used to have with beef with eating fortified cereals.

Why are you trying to bring down with diet, and why not just donate regularly? Seems strange to me as well as your diet choices. Are you the guy that was talking about the benefits of that 'cave man' diet or whatever that fad diet was at the time?

Also if you are 211 I have a hard time believing you are eating the cals you say. Unless you are say a mail man who walks 15 miles a day or something nuts. Do you work an extremally physical job?

There is some study that shows grapefruit (specifically naringin) lowers hemocrit. This may be something to consider, but donation is usually advised regardless.

Ingestion of grapefruit lowers elevated hematocrits in human subjects - PubMed

This study was based on in vitro observations that naringin isolated from grapefruit induced red cell aggregation and evidence that clumped red cells are removed from the circulation by phagocytosis. The effect on hematocrits of adding grapefruit to the daily diet was determined using 36 human...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I checked the breakfast cereal and it doesn't seem to be fortified with iron. Secondly for a time I was 195 eating over 5200 calories per day and posted about it many time on this board. Posted pics and everything. I do have an extremely physical job. I teach Jiu-jitsu and Muay thai. I also work out 3-4 times per week. I may toss in the grapefruit and see what happens.