This about sums up United and Kung Pow.

[monsoon]

The piece that irked me about this incident was it was Chicago PD that came on the plane to enforce a United Airlines Policy. And he went way over the top enforcing it.

I'm trying to stay out of this because my initial assessment was wrong,but I have to correct you here;
It was not Chicago PD. It was Aviation Pd. They are completely separate from CPD. They are unarmed and limited authority. You are correct in that they should have told United to take care of their own business and kept hands off.

 

[Yaya]

Both winners... the guys got long duk dong off the plane and now the donger is gonna be a millionaire

 

[tommyguns2]

The piece that irked me about this incident was it was Chicago PD that came on the plane to enforce a United Airlines Policy. And he went way over the top enforcing it.

No doubt. That entire fiasco was about everyone behaving badly. The airline, the passenger, and security. Seems like everyone misbehaved.

 

[Gms585]

Internet privacy. You want somebody's free service. You sign up and give them access to all sorts of your information. Educate yourself. And these bastions of bad business practice are Google and Apple, not exactly the Koch brothers. LOL These companies pride themselves on how progressive they are.

Net neutrality is a gov't issue, not a bad business practices issue. This was about the US gov't wanting to have more control. Not exactly a bad business practice.

Deregulation? Do you subscribe to the religion that every new regulation is good, and the removal of any present regulation is bad? Deregulation can be wonderful or it can be awful. Kinda depends on what regulation is being gutted. I'd say there are plenty of EPA regs that can go, and many that should stay in place. Just about every education regulation could go and we'd not notice a single thing in the classroom.

POB, you complain of police practices. I'm a libertarian, so we're probably on the same page. But that doesn't have much to do with bad business practices.

Your first retort doesn't make sense to me. Nothing is free about using an ISP. You pay to use it. They bombard you with advertisements. Now thanks to corrupt populous government on the left and right the same ISP's can sell ALL of your personal private data to whomever they deem fit. That is insanity.

Net neutrality is a bad business practice. I think you like so many other have no idea or a limited idea of what net neutrality is. Eliminating net neutrality gives ISP's (remember them the once that now own all data that make you you. ) It give them the authority to decide who gets what speed on the internet. So for example lets say Comcast wants to acquire say Disney... well in a bid to lower the cost of Disney stock they could limit internet access to all Disney web sites and services. That would be legal without net neutrality. That just the tip of the corruption and control iceberg.

Deregulation almost always hurts the worker and working class while lining the pockets of the already overly loaded 1%.

At heart i am a libertarian. However, there's no getting the monkey back in the cage so democratic socialism and strict separation of corporate $ from government is the next best bet to keep big corporations and over bloated government in check.

No doubt. That entire fiasco was about everyone behaving badly. The airline, the passenger, and security. Seems like everyone misbehaved.

True.

 

[JR Ewing]

As a small business owner, I can tell you that de-regulation generally helps the small business owner. Excessive regulations hurt small businesses, and has been the main reason for more businesses closing than opening for the first time ever in the last few years.

Excessive regulations generally have minimal impact upon the largest companies and the very wealthy - they can afford to hire the armies of lawyers, accountants, and other compliance personnel to deal with the added headaches, and they can write off the added expenses.

Additionally, the largest corps and billionaires often buy political influence via lobbyists, large super PAC donations, etc. George Soros supports more investment regulations and higher taxes because he will buy himself exemptions through his support of any democrat or RINO who will be willing to put such legislation in place. If he is exempt from such regulations and added taxes, he will have an advantage over the competition.

The same assumptions can generally be applied to any other super rich businessman or wealthy celeb who claims to embrace Bernie Sanders's "democratic socialism" - they would expect to be exempted from the 50-90 % taxes, the excessive regulations, etc. But what Sanders preaches sounds good to young college students, to those who don't own or invest in businesses, and to those who earn little or no money.

Regarding the net neutrality bill, I am skeptical of any big govt legislation containing hundreds or thousands of pages - just like Dodd Frank, ACA, etc... It probably sounds good in theory, but the devil is usually in the details.

I am pretty "libertarian" when it comes to many basic things - I don't care who you marry or who you sleep with, what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own homes, etc. But the more I talk to and listen to those who are extreme libertarians, the more I realize I am not one of them, and it usually becomes obvious that most libertarian extremists (like most right or left extremists) have limited real world experience, probably don't own or manage a business, have limited knowledge of military and national defense matters, etc. I believe in a small government and states' rights, but we do still need to maintain military superiority, to have law and order at home, etc.

 

[tommyguns2]

My younger brother is a big executive at a Wall Street firm, and he states that Dodd/Frank has made the top 10 banks (or so) all too big too fail, and has created an effective oligopoly in banking services. He says that compliance is so extensive that they have entire departments set up for it, and you can't barely go to the bathroom without filling out a form. Big banks can absorb these costs (along with the other big firms). He told me that he doesn't see many new, small banks being formed and entering the market. Dodd/Frank has basically raised the costs of entry so high that new competition is frozen out.

I'm sympathetic to the point about ISPs. But think about it for a second. Don't you think that a new, competing ISP has an opportunity to enter the market and "market" itself as the data security ISP that keeps all your information secret and/or anonymous? I would think that would be a great selling point for a new market participant.

I'm libertarian, but I understand that gov't has a role to play, and it can even be significant at times. For example, there are probably not many of us who are OK with our neighbor having a nuclear waste dump or some other toxic waste dump in their back yard. So I'm not crazy about it. But "democratic socialism" is an oxymoron to me. The only way to really be egalitarian is to impose it by force, and then liberty goes right out the window. And when you think about it, it makes total sense. Look at your co-workers at work, they're not all equal in ability, and even if they all were, they all put in differing amounts of effort. Consequently, the natural order of things would be differing outcomes ,and consequently they shouldn't be treated all the same. In order to ensure equal outcomes, you have to impose a significant burden on freedom in order to take from some to give to others...

 

[Gms585]

To JREwing - I am also a small business owner and some regulations do stifle small business. However, (and this is very very important to realize) those ARE NOT the regulations that are being shot down. The type of deregulation we are seeing only emboldens the wealthy and powerful. We have reached a point of economic inequality and over concentration that unless major laws are enacted to give the rest of this country their fair representation and influence on the government thing are nearly incapable of changing. In the mean time deregulation is code for stiffing of the middle class and poor.

To TommyG The internet is functioning fine now. No way acing net neutrality helps. No way. Also the fact that we just allowed the sale of our privacy to the highest bidder without riots says it all about the direction of this country. Democratic socialism is how most of out peer nations function. Things like internet, health care, education Those should NEVER be turned into a source of revenue and income. Those are things we should have a right to and things a government should supply its people. An educated, informed and healthy populous makes for a better nation. IMO.

 

[JR Ewing]

Gms585 - I'd be curious as to what sort of business you own.

I strongly disagree with your assertion that the only regs being shot down are those that benefit the wealthiest. Please provide specific examples.

Dodd-Frank that Tommy and I have mentioned is a perfect example - I have managed a small private investment fund for the last few years, and prior to that I worked as an investment advisor for one of the world's largest institutions. And before that I worked in banking for a large bank, and before that I worked in lending...

Dodd-Frank has put many small banks out of business, and has made life hell for just about everyone in the financial services industries. Fossil fuel and other "environmental" regs have put many small oil, gas, and coal companies under, and have hit these industries.

I have clients who own small businesses that employ hundreds of people. The ACA and other regs have cost them a great deal.

Just to clarify, those small businesses also usually gross tens or even hundreds of millions, and the owners are typically worth at least a few million. But I consider them (upper) middle class, just as I consider myself (upper) middle class - my business doesn't gross ten million or more a year, but I have very little overhead. Maybe I'd consider myself rich if I was worth nine figures.

Local governments provide "free" internets at places like public libraries. And no one in this country was ever denied actual medical CARE prior to the ACA. Governments already provide public education as well, but "free" college for all will not ever happen under any halfway sane federal government and should not. We couldn't even afford it now if we did want it - we are already headed towards the point where we cannot even service our current debt obligations.

 

[Gms585]

-JREwing
Lets start at the top and work my way down:

-I doubt you'll believe me but the Dodd-Frank laws negatively affected my business as well. I am in the insurance and financial industry.

-current deregulation being mulled:
*Volcker Rule: regulating speculative trading
*Broadband deregulation: that is netneurality and pricing caps
*energy deregulation: aimed at increasing coal and other old fashioned domestic energy
the above things will not help joe blow and really really wont help joe blow 10 years from now when the repercussions come to roost.


-Dodd-Frank has issues but it also has merits and its intentions were solid. Fixing rather then scraping is the better way. However, current administration isn't in the business of fix unlike the campaign promises. They have an insane order on deck called 2-1 which says for every new regulation enacted 2 must be repealed. That's lunacy. Imagine treating criminal law like that LOL. "We are an over legislated nation! Therefore for each new law passed we will repeal one! You want a new drug law or sexual protection? Say good by to speed limits!"-Said No Sane Person Ever

-If you think a Hundred million a year business is "small" or a person clearing over a million a year is middle class.... well I say good day. If that is you belief we will certainly never find middle as you are far to far in one direction sir.


-Public library internet access is your rebuttal to net neutrality?!?! If so you have NO idea what net neutrality really is or what its repeal will do.
*Yes many people have been denied medical services in this country. Obama care was a failure ONLY because it ended as a diluted, pale, sad version of itself THANKS to corporate lobbyists intervention in its creation. Single payer / socialized health care is the ONLY answer for a nation of our means.
*free or subsidized higher education OR extreme regulation of the industry are the ONLY answer for our country. There is already an extreme dumbing down of this country. We will never compete with countries like china and india if we don't invest in our youth. The more we pull away from investing in our youth as a nation the worse this counter becomes. I know from experience we will not reach an agreement on this point for some reason a great deal of more conservative older people just can see the value in having young citizens be educated.

 

[JR Ewing]

I live in an area that has always been big into oil and gas - finding it, drilling it, storing and transporting it, refining it, selling it, etc. Besides making many billions for the majors and shareholders, the oil and gas industry has provided countless opportunities for entrepreneurship for small businesses, and has provided countless jobs for the middle class. Poor have become middle class, middle class have become wealthy, etc, etc due to the fossil fuel industry. Occasionally the dirt poor have become filthy rich.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Hamm

When something truly better and more reliable and affordable on a large scale comes along, the free markets will make that determination. But in recent years govt went out of its way to try to pick winners and losers based upon cronyism and ideology.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/aug/26/solyndra-misled-government-get-535-million-solar-p/

Dodd-Frank is extreme overkill. The big banks are able to function, but it has been a huge strain on everyone else.

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welco....google.com/&referrer=https://www.google.com/

Many on the left want to regulate the markets to death. An investor or investment company should not be limited as to how many transactions they can execute, nor should they be "taxed" for every trade, nor should their speeds of execution be limited. If I decide to spend millions of dollars and countless hours developing an automated HFT system that allows me to execute large numbers of transactions at lightening speed, I should be allowed, and the costs should be between my broker and me... It's bad enough that there is such a huge disparity between short term (less than a year) and longterm (more than a year) cap gains taxes.

I did not say that "free" internet at public libraries was an answer to net neutrality - please don't make stuff up. That was my answer to your belief that everyone should have the right free internet at home provided by the federal govt.

We cannot afford free college for all. Should we also do away with college entrance requirements and guarantee everyone a degree no matter what? Then what - guarantee a job for life, a ridiculously high min wage, a home (see Great Recession), a car, etc on the taxpayer's dime?

College tuition and other expenses would REALLY go through the roof if they were suddenly all paid for by the federal govt. Same for health care.

If we ever see single payer here, it will be the end of us. We cannot afford it. Our politicians and government are too corrupt, bloated, and self-serving. Just look at the VA. Single payer may work to a certain degree in other smaller countries that spend less than 1% of GDP on national defense, tax their citizens to death, and pay their physicians ~ $50k USD a year. But it won't work here.

If you want to see actual health care costs go down, start by doing away with a lot of the excessive regulations the FDA saddles drug makers with. It usually costs over a billion just to bring a drug to market. And most drugs are developed here in the US.

 

[tommyguns2]

I'm sympathetic to what you're saying on net neutrality, but wasn't that the way it was, and wasn't the gov't trying to change that via legislation and/or regulation? I may be wrong on that.

"Intentions were solid." I tend to agree, but will never use that as the proper test for whether something could get scrapped or maintained. What matters is what actually works, and not whether the person implementing the regulation had good intentions. For example, I believe that ACA had good intentions, at least by some, but while more people may now be insured, others are paying way more in premiums, and even those who are now insured have such a high deductible that are reticent to go t the doc, as the first $5,000 is coming out of their pocket. that's a killer if you're family income is only 40,,000-50,000/year.

Regarding income inequality. Honestly, I still don't understand why that matters, except to reduce envy in people who aren't happy that someone else has more than them. What should matter is whether those on the "bottom" rung of the economic latter have "enough" to get by. If they have enough (whatever that is), who cares if the rich guy has $10 more than the poor guy or a million more than the poor guy.

For example, let's say it takes $50,000 for a family of four to have "enough" and the poor presently make $30,000/year, and the rich make $100,000/year. If we could magically triple everyone's income so that poor family now makes $90,000/year and rich family makes $270,000/year, is this better or worse? I think it's better, as the rich now have "enough". However, with respect to income inequality, things are worse, because the gap used to be $70,000, and now it's $210,000. Seems like income inequality is more about fueling class resentment rather than actually giving a shit about the poor.

 

[tommyguns2]

If you think health care and college tuition are expensive now, just wait till they're free!

The last time you went to the doc, did you ask him what the service/procedure costs? I'm guessing you didn't. And if you did, he/she wouldn't know the answer. Health care is the only business I know that neither the purchaser or the seller have any knowledge of the cost of the product and/or service. No wonder health costs are out of control. It's not a functioning market.