Thoughts on clen dosing

[cmeliftheavy]

I would do all at once as well, i am with you don't care for the shakes when around other peeps...

 

[SHINE]

does it matter if you take your clen dose all at once or spread it out? i know that it has a long half life, 36 hours. in horses it will test out to 72 hrs. the shaking is very undesirable. i was wondering if it was divided in half and taken in am and noon if it would decrease the shaking and still have the same effect? or would the shaking be the same because of the long half life? say 40mcg at 4 am and 40 mcg at noon.

Better yet invest your time in albuterol, much much easier to control this drug , less side effects and it has the same desired effect. Speaking from experience and knowing a thing or two about respiratory therapy for people, this is the drug of choice. I feel like from personal experience the drug doesn't loose it's effects as fast as clen while using keto. (probably do to the half-life of the drug)

 

[SHINE]

This is where ketotifen comes in.... google ketotifen fumarate for more info. I could just tell you about it but what would that accomplish? You can run it for 4 weeks straight or longer with Keto.

Good advice for clen or albuterol

 

[SHINE]

taurine has been on board at 1000mg a day for a week prior to starting. adjustment is super fast. tolerating 80mcg fairly well other than the hand shaking. hate the shaking hands for dealing with clients. if i didnt have people staring at my hands all day i wouldnt care!

Not nearly as bad with albuterol, I here ya when your in a professional enviroment and dealing with customers you can't come across like a junkie ! lol

 

[AllTheWay]

so i was pondering this subject last night and this morning, the ins and outs and the whys and wherefores of clen as it seems like there is many different thoughts on it. now i preface the following with this is how it works in horses and i know that people arent horses but on the cellular level i wonder if things arent pretty much the same.

a few years ago the Boeringher rep, BI is the company that puts out ventipulmin which is legal clenbuterol for horses, was visiting and we went to fleming tb farms to discuss them using their product. it was in the fall which is sale prep time for the yearlings and there was the discussion of using clen in the sales prep babies for the anabolic effects. now im not very smart but the rep is an older gentleman who is very intelligent and very science minded so i was listening intently to his discription of clen and how it worked. the primary use for it in horses is for COPD, to clear the lungs and open up the bronchioles. it increase the beat frequency of the cilia lining the lungs and causes the airways to open and any trapped mucous and trash is then dumped out into the larger airways and eventually coughed up. it is used for extended periods of time in horses. i sell it compounded by the gallon and many of the trainers will keep a good horse on it for an entire race season. now there is a 72 hour withdrawl prior to racing but the rest of the time the horses are maintained on 5mls or 362.5mcg daily.

when ken got to talking about the anabolic effects of it i remember very distinctly that it took about 2 - 3 weeks to start seeing the changes associated with that. a shinier hair coat, more fullness to the muscle bellies, leaner etc etc. so i got to thinking that as people we take it for a two week course and then stop. so about the time that it is really starting to change the way the muscle cells metabolize energy we stop using it. so might this be the reason that so many people are unsatisified with its results? because it isnt taken long enough for the anabolic effects to truly kick in? i will admit that i havent searched for research of clen use in humans for anabolic effect and the timing for that to occur but it was just something that i got to thinking about last night. (and by research i dont mean some article in a muscle mag but actual scientific study done on it)

anyway just thought that it was interesting.

have a great day everyone!

 

[SAD]

I think the whole "2 week" thing has to do with the rapid downregulation of beta receptors. With ketotifen (or even benadryl), clen can be run for 4-6 weeks before it's no longer effective at a maximum "safe" dose. Very interesting post ATW, definitely got me thinking again about running clen during pct for some energy and debatable anti-catabolism. Thanks.

 

[AllTheWay]

in horses, we always use the same dose, it never changes and yet we still will see the metabolic change the entire course of treatment. makes me wonder if we worry about the desensitization in humans too much? is it still working even though we arent "feeling" anything? i dont know as i said previously i havent done any research just throwing out thoughts.

 

[AWARE72]

I would split it up and I read a study somewhere that found if you take your clen EOD you will not desensitize to it and will be able to run it longer

 

[Dangling Unit]

From Medscape: Medscape Access

Medscape: What toxic effects are seen in horses?

Dr. McKeever: Therapeutic doses of clenbuterol given for a moderate length of time -- something well within the scope of what's in the brochure that accompanies the medication -- can not only push a horse towards heart failure, but it also results in other problems. It leads to a decrease in aerobic capacity, a decrease in the time to fatigue, and a shift of muscle fiber profile. When you look at the myocin heavy chain profile on muscle biopsies, you can see a change in the distribution of the different types of muscle fiber. We did research using standard-bred racehorses, which are middle distance runners. Normally, their profiles have a lot of fast-twitch oxidative fibers ('weight lifter' fiber), slow-twitch oxidative fibers (endurance fibers), and a moderate amount of the fast-twitch glycolytic fibers (which have a lot of oxidative capacity). When the horses were on clenbuterol, they shifted more towards a sprinter or weight lifter's profile - where the fast-twitch glycolytic fibers and the fast-twitch oxidative fibers predominate.

In other words, the tissue shifts from looking like it's from an aerobic athlete's muscle profile (as far as the fiber typing), to a profile that looks like it's from a weight lifter. That's over the course of 8 weeks of treatment. As for repartitioning effects, we saw those occurring within 2 weeks. As far as acute effects in the horses -- ie, the nervousness, sweating, elevated pulse rate, increases in blood pressure, muscle tremors -- we saw those as we gave the initial doses and when we wrapped up the dose. It's a very potent drug. The acute effects can be scary, but then the long-term effects look even scarier.

Medscape: Body builders who abuse this drug seem to use a 2 weeks on 2 weeks off regimen. Why? Would they get into medical trouble if they didn't cycle like this?

Dr. Hoffman: Probably not. Therapeutically, people such as asthmatics use it long term. In general, bodybuilders tend to cycle the drugs they use and that's probably based on their patterns of steroid use. If somebody stays on steroids too long they get the adverse effects. Usually bodybuilders will cycle steroids for 4 weeks - on for a month and off for a month, or on for 6 weeks off for 6 weeks. It's a general principle they apply to clenbuterol as well. Clenbuterol is not dangerous when used long term (at therapeutic doses) but people definitely develop a type of tolerance to, or tachyphylaxis. Initially when someone starts taking clenbuterol just to take 40 mcg of it, a 40 mcg dose they may barely tolerate it but after a week's use. If you look at the body building sites you'll see they tell people to up the dose. Start with a dose of 50 mcg or thereabouts, and you up it until you can tolerate 100 mcg. After a certain amount of time it is much easier to tolerate that dose; your body has developed tachyphylaxis. For that reason people will usually cycle clenbuterol. Two weeks is a shorter cycle. More people take clenbuterol for a month or even 6 weeks.

 

[AllTheWay]

interesting DU. i need to do some research on it as i am a big numbers person and scientifically proven person. that being said, everybody has an opinion and that often varies with who is paying for their research so all research needs to be taken with a grain of salt unless it has stastical significance.

 

[Dangling Unit]

That Medscape article seems to be objective.

 

[IronInsanity]

This is where ketotifen comes in.... google ketotifen fumarate for more info. I could just tell you about it but what would that accomplish? You can run it for 4 weeks straight or longer with Keto.

Is ketotifen going to make a significant difference over benedryl in extending a cycle?