Test levels for hpta shutdown

[Jimmyinkedup]

You shoud get bloods 6-8 weeks post pct to assess where your levels are accurately. It takes that long to get the real picture of your HPTA recovery.
If you did that and levels are still ow I would try a restart before hopping on to trt personally. I do HCG for several weeks followed by a clomid/nolva pct. Leave out the ai & Daa. DAA effects prolactin significantly and I personally feel there is no place for an ai in pct.
JMO....

 

[Docd187123]

If your hpta shuts down, doesn't that mean not only your testoserone would be low, but petuitary and thyroid outputs, too? If so, wouldn't you have potentially serious side effects?

If you are shit down, then by definition your pituitary is either not receiving the signal to create LH and FSH or it is and it's just not making them. Either way yes, it's output of those two hormones is low but that's to be expected.

Why would you think HPTA shutdown would affect the thyroid?

 

[UncleAl]

If you are shit down, then by definition your pituitary is either not receiving the signal to create LH and FSH or it is and it's just not making them. Either way yes, it's output of those two hormones is low but that's to be expected.

Why would you think HPTA shutdown would affect the thyroid?

Thank you.

If I am not mistaken, the hypothalmus plays an important role in thyroid regulation.

 

[Docd187123]

Thank you.

If I am not mistaken, the hypothalmus plays an important role in thyroid regulation.

You are correct that the hypothalamus does play a role in the thyroid by producing TRH which then stimulates the pituitary to make TSH, etc but this process isn't affected significantly by AAS. Now if you were to take T3 or T4 then yes you'd shutdown your thyroid.

 

[UncleAl]

You are correct that the hypothalamus does play a role in the thyroid by producing TRH which then stimulates the pituitary to make TSH, etc but this process isn't affected significantly by AAS. Now if you were to take T3 or T4 then yes you'd shutdown your thyroid.

Thanks, doc. My TSH tanked, but perhaps it was coincidental.

 

[Docd187123]

Thanks, doc. My TSH tanked, but perhaps it was coincidental.

By tanked, you mean your TSH levels went down? This would suggest an increase in thyroid efficiency or possibly hyperthyroidism but not hypothyroidism. You'd need more tests to determine which.

 

[wesleyinman]

240 nanograms is the standard level of shutdown, or where one would be considered "hypogonadal". >240. There are multiple scales, but generally a working HPTA is considered 240-1000 nanograms total.

Free testosterone levels are more important because that level shows how much Testosterone is actually circulating in the bloodstream on that given date and time that you drew blood.

You can always run clomid 25-50mgs ED for say 30-60 days, wait a few weeks and re test and get a more accurate reading.

True HPTA return, I have seen take 2-12 months in healthy males in the Medical Field. Other times even after a year, guys might remain at 350nanograms..which although considered "healthy" by the Medical Community..truly is not. It is not optimal. Most patients in the Hospital that I saw under 500nanograms had muscle wasting, depression, ED issues, etc, etc..

Low T is also medically unhealthy.

 

[Docd187123]

240 nanograms is the standard level of shutdown, or where one would be considered "hypogonadal". >240. There are multiple scales, but generally a working HPTA is considered 240-1000 nanograms total.

Free testosterone levels are more important because that level shows how much Testosterone is actually circulating in the bloodstream on that given date and time that you drew blood.

You can always run clomid 25-50mgs ED for say 30-60 days, wait a few weeks and re test and get a more accurate reading.

True HPTA return, I have seen take 2-12 months in healthy males in the Medical Field. Other times even after a year, guys might remain at 350nanograms..which although considered "healthy" by the Medical Community..truly is not. It is not optimal. Most patients in the Hospital that I saw under 500nanograms had muscle wasting, depression, ED issues, etc, etc..

Low T is also medically unhealthy.

There is nothing inherently unhealthy about 350ng/dl test levels unless one happens to be symptomatic and a full medical history and physical done.

Free test is not a more important panel to be pulled. It is subject to flaws and non-standardization and varies significantly from lab to lab.

Total testosterone simply is all testosterone bound and unbound to serum proteins. The serum proteins mainly responsible for transport are SHBG and albumin.

Free testosterone (FT) is that unbound to any serum protein. Bioavailable or non-SHBG testosterone (BT) is testosterone not bound to SHBG. So you can see, your post includes SHBG with reference to FT and TT, but not BT.


Total testosterone has the only reproducible, validated assay used by all labs. Th other tests are method dependent and can vary considerably from lab to lab. Becuase of this do not believe or order a FT or BT unless you absolutely know the methodology and even then if it is a method known to be validated. The best recourse (and most commonly used by physicians) is to order the TT and SHBG (even the SHBG test needs to be a validated test). One can calculate the BT and FT with the Vermeulen Method.


As far as diagnosing hypogonadism, the TT is the first test. If the TT is low (of course, a history & physical has already been done) or borderline for some, nothing else needs to be done. The TT does not do a good job of capturing all those who have hypogonadism. In the conditions where the TT is not low, one looks to the BT or FT.

 

[wesleyinman]

There is nothing inherently unhealthy about 350ng/dl test levels unless one happens to be symptomatic and a full medical history and physical done.

Free test is not a more important panel to be pulled. It is subject to flaws and non-standardization and varies significantly from lab to lab.

Not unhealthy, but not optimal. Low test being hypogonadal was the clear statement that I made. And then please demonstrate how 350 nanograms compared to say 600 would be preferable in a middle aged male??

And who made 240nanograms the "hypothetical" cut off line.

Also Free Test and Total test are both subject to flaws. A consistent free level of testosterone is going to show a more accurate view of what is happening in the body..Since we know all labs are simply a photograph of the body on that given time and date and variables such as diet, sleep, sex, supplements, food, drug or alcohol intake etc, etc, etc..can all change this. This would show how stable blood plasma levels. Maybe the endo's I worked with for years, were all wrong??

How is this even an argument??

 

[UncleAl]

By tanked, you mean your TSH levels went down? This would suggest an increase in thyroid efficiency or possibly hyperthyroidism but not hypothyroidism. You'd need more tests to determine which.

Damn it, I meant to edit my post. This was wayyyyyyy back in 1989. My TSH went up -- from normal to some ungodly number. We're talking major hypothyroidism, and my doc panicked, insisting I go on meds immediately. I've been on them ever since.

 

[graniteman]

You are correct that the hypothalamus does play a role in the thyroid by producing TRH which then stimulates the pituitary to make TSH, etc but this process isn't affected significantly by AAS. Now if you were to take T3 or T4 then yes you'd shutdown your thyroid.

Thanks, doc. My TSH tanked, but perhaps it was coincidental.

By tanked, you mean your TSH levels went down? This would suggest an increase in thyroid efficiency or possibly hyperthyroidism but not hypothyroidism. You'd need more tests to determine which.

Not unhealthy, but not optimal. Low test being hypogonadal was the clear statement that I made. And then please demonstrate how 350 nanograms compared to say 600 would be preferable in a middle aged male??

And who made 240nanograms the "hypothetical" cut off line.

Also Free Test and Total test are both subject to flaws. A consistent free level of testosterone is going to show a more accurate view of what is happening in the body..Since we know all labs are simply a photograph of the body on that given time and date and variables such as diet, sleep, sex, supplements, food, drug or alcohol intake etc, etc, etc..can all change this. This would show how stable blood plasma levels. Maybe the endo's I worked with for years, were all wrong??

How is this even an argument??

I'm still waiting for ''doc'' here to state for once if he is a actual doctor or playing one on the internet?
People should know if they are getting sound advice or internet advice. It's a reasonable and prudent thing not to mention simple.

 

[Docd187123]

Not unhealthy, but not optimal. Low test being hypogonadal was the clear statement that I made.

And I say anything less than 2000ng/dl is not optimal....where do you draw the line?

And then please demonstrate how 350 nanograms compared to say 600 would be preferable in a middle aged male??

i don't have to, you made the claim it was unhealthy so the burden of proof is on you not me. But for shits and giggles, the standard range is almost always the optimal range as well except in few select cases such as vitamins and lipid tests.

And who made 240nanograms the "hypothetical" cut off line.

the clinical chemists and biochemists that did the testing and statistics to determine that 95% of the population falls within the reference range given.

Also Free Test and Total test are both subject to flaws. A consistent free level of testosterone is going to show a more accurate view of what is happening in the body..Since we know all labs are simply a photograph of the body on that given time and date and variables such as diet, sleep, sex, supplements, food, drug or alcohol intake etc, etc, etc..can all change this. This would show how stable blood plasma levels. Maybe the endo's I worked with for years, were all wrong??

How is this even an argument??

free test is subject to much more flaws, the test is not universally standardized whereas total testosterone panels are, and the assays for total test have been validated whereas it's not the case for all FT panels.

But on top of all that, free test still doesn't give a more accurate view of what's happening in the body. All non-SHBG bound test is considered bioactive, not just the free test. That's bc test is weakly bound to serum albumin and becomes biologically active once it hits a capillary bed.