Not clear on PCT

[Bennny C]

I've been told 20/20/40/40 was I miss inform or well work the same or is it best to go 40/40/20/20 I go with nolva. everytime like it the best actually my doses are more like 15/15/30/30 is that enough or should I go more ? I have to start today with my post so will someone let me know as soon as possible thanks

 

[GetXXL]

It's fine, I've seen numerous people recover on nolva only, 20 mg ED for 4 weeks is the standard used for avarage length and dosed cycles.

Get some clomid... They are not so close chemically. Nolva blocks estro in the breast tissue. Clomid reboots your HPTA.

Define rebooting the HPTA? If you're refering to getting LH and FSH back up so the testes get stimulated to produce testosterone, then tamoxifen does that as well. Moreover, Vermeulen et al. hypothesised that it might stimulate the gonad directly, as it showed an increase in testosterone, with no change in basal LH and FSH in a short duration trial. Furthermore, it even raises T in hypergonadotrophic individuals, suggesting the very same (Kadioglu et al. 1999).

And chemically they are of course closely related, they both share the same triphenylethylene backbone and the N,N-diethylethanamine side chain. I attached a picture of the chemical structure of both compounds, since a picture says more than a thousand words of chemistry.

Note; I'm not advocating tamoxifen above clomid.

 

[Popeye50]

It's fine, I've seen numerous people recover on nolva only, 20 mg ED for 4 weeks is the standard used for avarage length and dosed cycles.


Define rebooting the HPTA? If you're refering to getting LH and FSH back up so the testes get stimulated to produce testosterone, then tamoxifen does that as well. Moreover, Vermeulen et al. hypothesised that it might stimulate the gonad directly, as it showed an increase in testosterone, with no change in basal LH and FSH in a short duration trial. Furthermore, it even raises T in hypergonadotrophic individuals, suggesting the very same (Kadioglu et al. 1999).

And chemically they are of course closely related, they both share the same triphenylethylene backbone and the N,N-diethylethanamine side chain. I attached a picture of the chemical structure of both compounds, since a picture says more than a thousand words of chemistry.

Note; I'm not advocating tamoxifen above clomid.

More often than not I have seen better results from clomid only, over nolva only (if used alone for PCT). This is real users results.....not outdated, 15 year old studies (or almost any study) of these drugs. Now I am not saying there aren't good results from Nolva only either.

Clomid only cycles are used very often for increasing natural testosterone...I've never heard of someone running a Nolvadex "cycle" to increase their natural testosterone. Sure it may slightly, but NOT like Clomid will.

Of course everyone is different and it's good to try it all.....to see what works best for you personally.

As far as their chemical structure being "similar", this means absolutely NOTHING in terms of actual biological activity. The two are similar but not the same! Where one lacks, the other picks up.

I'd recommend the combo...with HCG blast (NOT DURING PCT). Why not bring out all the guns when trying to recover your HPTA?

 

[GetXXL]

More often than not I have seen better results from clomid only, over nolva only (if used alone for PCT). This is real users results.....not outdated, 15 year old studies (or almost any study) of these drugs. Now I am not saying there aren't good results from Nolva only either.

Clomid only cycles are used very often for increasing natural testosterone...I've never heard of someone running a Nolvadex "cycle" to increase their natural testosterone. Sure it may slightly, but NOT like Clomid will.

Good, but I hope it is clear I've stated nowhere that tamoxifen was more effective than clomid.

On a sidenote: purely looking at efficacy of recovery of T after an AAS cycle I am actually leaning towards clomid, however, I find clinical studies lacking (I know of none clinical study wherein tamoxifen is applied to hypogonadal men), which I need to make a fair comparisement, nevertheless, tamoxifen also does a good job.

And, although I never stated that tamoxifen was more effective, and thus I was backing that specific issue up with 15 year old studies: 15 year old studies are still more reliable than individual blood results due to confounding factors. If, of course, the test group is relevant as well as dosing and duration of treatment.

Of course everyone is different and it's good to try it all.....to see what works best for you personally.

As far as their chemical structure being "similar", this means absolutely NOTHING in terms of actual biological activity. The two are similar but not the same! Where one lacks, the other picks up.

So its a coincidence that all anabolic steroids have similar structures with similar effects ? It's a bold statement to say that similar chemical structures mean absolutely NOTHING in terms of their actual effects, but I see where you're coming from. Nevertheless, I was only commenting that their chemical structure IS similar, I wasn't saying anything in terms of their effects.

I'd recommend the combo...with HCG blast (NOT DURING PCT). Why not bring out all the guns when trying to recover your HPTA?

I can also highly recommend hCG usage during a cycle

 

[hoodlum]

To answer your question directly, yes I've done a Nolva only PCT twice and blood results have returned to normal both times without a problem. Followed dosage of 40/40/20/20.

In more detail, you can get right into the science of things but basically in my opinion nolva will do just fine. Clomid is generally better for recovery but a lot of people can't handle it (I am one of them, I get too emotional/sad/depressed on it). HCG is good but make sure your getting real stuff (home testing it is easy and cheap) and isn't easy to find everywhere, its more expencive than gold where i am. You'll be fine with nolva.

 

[Mr. Wiggly]

I did my first 5 or 6 cycles with Nolva only. Worked fine. It wasnt until I started doing cycles too close together that I actually needed Clomid. Not saying you shouldnt use it otherwise, its good stuff. It sounds like this is your first cycle and with test P only. Dont over think it. Nolva is all you NEED, clomid would be nice and HCG is wonderful but not "necessary". I know some guys get weird effects from Clomid but i dont, in fact I was on Clomid at 100mg ED for 8 weeks (with the exception of some morning sickness after week 6), no problems. Alot of info was thrown around here in this thread so dont get confused, its pretty simple. No matter what facts anyone posts the effects of these compounds in "laymans" terms are as follows: Nolva basicly protects you from the storm of estrogen caused by aromatization , Clomid basicly gets your nuts back on line, and HCG prevents on cycle atrophy along with alot of other health benefits. If your young and sporting a flag pole easily then you may recover very easily, if your old and cant get it up then your gonna need some help getting back on line.

 

[Grumpyfit]

I may have cried a few times on clomid lol

I'm afraid to watch Old Yeller, LOL

 

[SHINE]

It's fine, I've seen numerous people recover on nolva only, 20 mg ED for 4 weeks is the standard used for avarage length and dosed cycles.


Define rebooting the HPTA? If you're refering to getting LH and FSH back up so the testes get stimulated to produce testosterone, then tamoxifen does that as well. Moreover, Vermeulen et al. hypothesised that it might stimulate the gonad directly, as it showed an increase in testosterone, with no change in basal LH and FSH in a short duration trial. Furthermore, it even raises T in hypergonadotrophic individuals, suggesting the very same (Kadioglu et al. 1999).

And chemically they are of course closely related, they both share the same triphenylethylene backbone and the N,N-diethylethanamine side chain. I attached a picture of the chemical structure of both compounds, since a picture says more than a thousand words of chemistry.

Note; I'm not advocating tamoxifen above clomid.

You must be from CEM ! nice to see some post with the tech behind it.

 

[GetXXL]

You must be from CEM ! nice to see some post with the tech behind it.

Have an account there, but actually from dutchbodybuilding.

 

[Starwind]

Why is hCG not used post cycle? I've read a few places that the trio of nolva/clomid/hCG do great, but Nolva alone is the best route if it gets too deep with clomid?

 

[athens]

Over the years it has been widely debated which drug, Clomid or Nolvadex, is the better drug for blocking estrogen and increasing testosterone production. The best thing to do since were all different in the way we respond to different drugs, is to try one or the other and see which one works best for you. For me personally I use a AI like aromasin during a cycle and finish off with clomid. It really comes down to personal preference on what works best for you. Since you already have the Nolva use that for now. Get yourself some Clomid for future use if the nolva doesn't work well for you.

 

[Braw16]

I run hcg 250 2ew and when I get off I will run a combo of clomid and nolva it seems to work really well for me. I remember when I was young and didn't have a clue not even running a PCT and I was fine very dumb looking back now. It was said not to over think it take that advice and all the advice you have been given and determine what is best for you. Good luck