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Nandrolone HRT

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956Vette

VIP Member
Sep 27, 2010
195
59
Recent labs after being on Durabolin for a year+

Component Value Unit Standard Range
Testosterone, Total, LC/MS 437 ng/dL 264.0-916.0
Free Testosterone(Direct) 25.5 pg/mL 8.7-25.1
Estradiol, Sensitive 25 pg/mL 8.0-35.0
Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum 9.7 nmol/L 16.5-55.9
Prolactin 9 ng/mL 4.0-15.2
Prostate Specific Ag, Serum 1.2 ng/mL 0.0-4.0
DHEA-Sulfate 138.0 ug/dL 102.6-416.3
RBC 5.99 x10E6/uL 4.14-5.80
Hemoglobin 18.5 g/dL 13.0-17.7
Hematocrit 53.8 % 37.5-51.0
 
Tuffoldman

Tuffoldman

VIP Member
May 23, 2011
898
541
I have not done Deca in over a decade. I personally never worried about hair loss because I have none (been shaving smooth since 1994). My concern is I thought I remember several years back the use of deca and the issue with atherosclerosis. Now don't quote me on that but I could have sworn I remember that it was shown that Deca use did have some detrimental effects on the hardening of the arteries or more plaque buildup I can't remember the exact study. I know they said that there was a redox effect on liver kidney and heart but there's more of a concern of long-term effects to the heart muscle itself.


I very rarely have any issues with high estrogen I've been very lucky over the years. I've been on trt and cycle about twice a year with some pretty heavy cycles and have not had to use anti-estrogens and probably 8 to 10 years.


I used to use deca to help my joints when I first got into the game and that's when I had all my trouble my right nipple still has a knot underneath it and I always had a lot of swelling from it but that is more prolactin?? Anyway I would be curious and would love to follow a journal if you keep something because I would love to be able to do something low dose long term and I'm also curious in changing up the normal routine to try something new.


Sorry, really didn't add much to your thread but curious what everybody's thoughts are in reference to plaque, hardening of the arteries or just overall damage to the heart due to Deca.


I know there's a lot of bro science and a lot of crap regurgitated. That's why I've always tried to do things first hand and get the real scoop.


Looking forward to see what you decide to do and how that goes
 
W

Wilson6

VIP Member
Dec 17, 2019
126
192
I ran Deca only (200 mg/2 wk) and HCG 350 IU 2x/wk for 10 years (1995 - 2005). Had echos done as I've always had heart palpitations, there was no change from 95 to 2005. Some left ventricular hypertrophy but nothing you wouldn't expect for a heavy lifter and didn't watch my BP and HCT as close as I should have back then. That was probably the most important. HDL has always been in the 35 - 40 range. Had a CT angiogram done a couple years ago, score was zero, arteries totally clear. As was discussed in the MD article on nandrolone, there is alot of animal literature that suggests DECA is bad in higher doses cardiac wise, but nothing from the human side esp in HRT dosing and even the docs that commented in that article that use it for HRT and have also worked with lifters on higher doses of DECA have not seen adverse cardiac effects. Generally uncontrolled BP, family history, concurrent stimulant use and multiple other AAS in high doses are what really get you in trouble. Having said that, I'm sold on the concurrent use of an ARB or ACEi, blackseed oil and keeping dosing overall of DECA 100 mg/wk or less for HRT. There are enough clinics using it now that we should start to see data in a year or two.
 
BackAtIt

BackAtIt

MuscleHead
Oct 3, 2016
2,010
569
I ran Deca only (200 mg/2 wk) and HCG 350 IU 2x/wk for 10 years (1995 - 2005). Some left ventricular hypertrophy but nothing you wouldn't expect for a heavy lifter. HDL has always been in the 35 - 40 range. Had a CT angiogram done a couple of years ago, the score was zero, arteries totally clear. There are enough clinics using it now that we should start to see data in a year or two.
W6, in regards to the LVH, I'm assuming that u did NOT have any data on what the numbers were BEFORE running the DECA?...For clarity, u are not attributing the INCREASE in size to your LVC, specifically to the DECA, right?...It could be from heavy lifting or the DECA use, correct?....

Have u always maintained a good diet throughout your life?....It is really stellar that your arteries are completely clear, absolutely impressive, friend!....

Would u mind listing those clinics that are using DECA for HRT that YOU would recommend?...I would like to research this further!....Thanks, friend!...


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W

Wilson6

VIP Member
Dec 17, 2019
126
192
W6, in regards to the LVH, I'm assuming that u did NOT have any data on what the numbers were BEFORE running the DECA?...For clarity, u are not attributing the INCREASE in size to your LVC, specifically to the DECA, right?...It could be from heavy lifting or the DECA use, correct?....

Have u always maintained a good diet throughout your life?....It is really stellar that your arteries are completely clear, absolutely impressive, friend!....

Would u mind listing those clinics that are using DECA for HRT that YOU would recommend?...I would like to research this further!....Thanks, friend!...

I did have data, had an echo in 1993 and then 2005 and every few years going forward, DECA had no effect. Two cardiac MRIs w/LGE 2019 and 2021. LV mass has decreased slowly over time, better BP control and lifting way less in terms of weight and intensity, old age is preventing that. Last ECHO and stress ECHO this year showed mild LVH and 16 mm septal wall thickness and mild and improving diastolic dysfunction but everyone over 60 has diastolic dysfunction. Genetic testing ruled out any known genes for HCM and I have no obstruction but they still call it HCM because of the septal wall thickness and the MRIs showed some patchy fibrosis, but we're finding more and more of that in older athletes regardless. Diet has been good, just wished I'd pain more attention to BP and known what I know about ARBs and ACEi now. Would have been taking them years ago.

Telmisartan (ARB) is an old drug that is a partial PPAR-gamma agonist, probably one of the best to use along with HRT or AAS. In addition to blocking ANGII that leads to the cardiac remodeling, it helps with blood sugar and lipid mgmt, and lowers hemoglobin. A perfect ancillary for older guys on HRT. If you can't tolerate the ARB, lisinopril (ACEi) is also helpful.

The clinic that was part of the Tatem et al study looking at ND along with TC for joint pain was based in Houston TX. They were giving guys 200 mg TC and 100 mg ND a week for HRT. https://tau.amegroups.com/article/view/32338/28659 You may also check out Excel Male website, the HRT forum. Empower Pharmacy in Houston compounds the ND, it is fairly expensive $75 for 5 ml of 200 mg/ml. Double that of a good UG lab, but at least you know its legit.
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W

Wilson6

VIP Member
Dec 17, 2019
126
192
W6, in regards to the LVH, I'm assuming that u did NOT have any data on what the numbers were BEFORE running the DECA?...For clarity, u are not attributing the INCREASE in size to your LVC, specifically to the DECA, right?...It could be from heavy lifting or the DECA use, correct?....

Have u always maintained a good diet throughout your life?....It is really stellar that your arteries are completely clear, absolutely impressive, friend!....

Would u mind listing those clinics that are using DECA for HRT that YOU would recommend?...I would like to research this further!....Thanks, friend!...


.
Victor Prisk was one of the round table responders on the MD article. He has a clinic that uses ND for HRT. https://www.orthoandwellness.com/
 
BackAtIt

BackAtIt

MuscleHead
Oct 3, 2016
2,010
569
@Wilson6 Thank you, friend!...Really appreciate the feedback!....I'll give those recommendations a look-see!....


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