Gastric emptying

[ajdos]

i dont know for sure RR but that seems to be what most people who know about them say. from what i have gathered it has to do with the carbs and not the protein and fat that one eats. so if one is eating a high protein meal with little carbs then it has no or little effect on the peptides effect and one can inject whenever without considering gastric emptying. but carbs interfere with their usage and im not sure how or why that happens. it is something else for me to figure out.

With eating every two hours for most there is going to be a best guess scenario, IF the user is attempting to take the peptide coinciding with low blood sugar.
Honestly its not going to be very effective in that manner unless you are doing something very low carb as insulin from meals will blunt the fat burining effect of a ghrp pretty significantly.
Honestly when I used GHRP-6 and cjc I did pre cardio, pwo, and pre-bed time regardless of meals, or what I thought about my gastric emptying.
Im sure some others will have some different approaches, as you said, its peptides theres not too many established rules, mostly guidelines.

As I stated, had you read it, insulin blunts the effect.

 

[AllTheWay]

As I stated, had you read it, insulin blunts the effect.

indeed, i should have read better, my bad.

so then how is it that insulin blunts the effect? serious question as i am here to learn.

 

[SHINE]

I just realized how I typed that out.I think deadweight and I went to the same typing class

LOL! don't feel bad I tend to type in Red-neck and german Nazi Irish ! ha ha ha!

Aight! carry-on .

 

[ajdos]

indeed, i should have read better, my bad.

so then how is it that insulin blunts the effect? serious question as i am here to learn.

The simplest way to explain it is the double edged effect of isnulin its pro-fat storage and glucose shuttling effect.
The other environmental aspect is insulin is going to be released due to the presence of glucose, as long as the body has a very ample supply of glucose its going to use this as a form of energy not body fat.
The same protein sparing effect seen from carbs will also see a fat sparing effect.

 

[PillarofBalance]

I think the most important thing relative to diet timing and peptides is to avoid fat after injections as that blunts the GH release.

 

[AllTheWay]

We conclude that physiological elevations in GH 1) induce state a of insulin resistance within 2–12 h, 2) only slightly impair insulin's suppressive effect on endogenous glucose production, indicating that the primary site of insulin resistance resides in peripheral tissues, 3) do not alter the plasma insulin response to hyperglycemia, and 4) cause a decrease in insulin binding that results from a decrease in receptor affinity. The inability to overcome the defect in glucose metabolism at high plasma insulin concentrations suggests that a significant postreceptor defect (in addition to the receptor defect) contributes to the observed insulin resistance. (J Clin Endocrinol Metab 55: 973, 1982)

The Effect of Growth Hormone on Glucose Metabolism and Insulin Secretion in Man

it seems to me that the reason for not injecting when insulin is high would be due to the fact that GH release induces insulin resistance. therefore it would make the bodies response to insulin less. if one injects when insulin is low then the GH doesnt have any effect on the bodies ability to utilize insulin, which is important in metabolism. it appears that by taking it on an empty stomach with low glucose levels then we are protecting the body against an insulin resistant period. so it isnt about it negatively affecting the GH release or response but rather insulins ability to continue working.

 

[AllTheWay]

Growth hormone (GH) counteracts insulin action on lipid and glucose metabolism..........long-term exposure to GH is, in general, associated with hyperinsulinemia, which leads to a reduction of IR levels and an impairment of its tyrosine kinase activity. The signals of GH and insulin may converge at post-receptor levels. The signaling pathway leading to activation of PI 3-kinase appears to be an important site of convergence between the signals of these two hormones and seems to be mediated principally by IRS-1. Rodent models of chronic GH excess have been useful tools to investigate the mechanism by which GH induces insulin resistance.

Growth Hormone-Induced Alterations in the Insulin-Signaling System

again GH causes the insulin resistance. insulin is valuable in

it can be seen that simultaneously with
insulin’s autacoid effect in stimulating lipogenesis it also
exhibits a chalonic effect in inhibiting glycerol release. It is
this inhibitory effect on lipolysis (and also glycolysis,
gluconeogenesis, ketogenesis and proteolysis) that accounts
for most of insulin’s physiological effects in vivo in man. It
is also this inhibitory effect that is mainly responsible for
insulin’s net anabolic actions.

http://joe.endocrinology-journals.org/content/170/1/13.full.pdf

so we need and want insulin and we want the body to be able to respond to it. if we inject GH or a GHRP while insulin levels are high then we decrease the bodies ability to get the benefits from insulin. which is counter productive for us. so by taking it at low glucose levels and therefore low insulin levels, when we get the GH spike it does its job and doesnt interfere with insulin doing its job.

 

[ajdos]

We conclude that physiological elevations in GH 1) induce state a of insulin resistance within 2–12 h, 2) only slightly impair insulin's suppressive effect on endogenous glucose production, indicating that the primary site of insulin resistance resides in peripheral tissues, 3) do not alter the plasma insulin response to hyperglycemia, and 4) cause a decrease in insulin binding that results from a decrease in receptor affinity. The inability to overcome the defect in glucose metabolism at high plasma insulin concentrations suggests that a significant postreceptor defect (in addition to the receptor defect) contributes to the observed insulin resistance. (J Clin Endocrinol Metab 55: 973, 1982)

The Effect of Growth Hormone on Glucose Metabolism and Insulin Secretion in Man

it seems to me that the reason for not injecting when insulin is high would be due to the fact that GH release induces insulin resistance. therefore it would make the bodies response to insulin less. if one injects when insulin is low then the GH doesnt have any effect on the bodies ability to utilize insulin, which is important in metabolism. it appears that by taking it on an empty stomach with low glucose levels then we are protecting the body against an insulin resistant period. so it isnt about it negatively affecting the GH release or response but rather insulins ability to continue working.

That study is also based on a 2-12 hour infusion, Im wondering if that was an intravenous infusion.
The thing is the article is also looking at a "Pharmacological dose" of actual growth hormone, which would be somewhat of an apples to apricots comparison with GHRP-2 or other related peptides.
I took GH for 4 years straight in doses no lower than 4ius and no higher than 15ius. At times I used insulin and IGF concurrently, I can tell you, that the long term usage results in some insulin resistance, also genetic factors play a role, such as diabetes running in ones family.
I think if anything its a much more practical reasoning that people take it on a more empty stomach than not...but again, I think you would have to poll the people to find out what their protocol of choice is with the peptides to gain a better picture of peoples reasons to do peptides how and when.

 

[ajdos]

Growth hormone (GH) counteracts insulin action on lipid and glucose metabolism..........long-term exposure to GH is, in general, associated with hyperinsulinemia, which leads to a reduction of IR levels and an impairment of its tyrosine kinase activity. The signals of GH and insulin may converge at post-receptor levels. The signaling pathway leading to activation of PI 3-kinase appears to be an important site of convergence between the signals of these two hormones and seems to be mediated principally by IRS-1. Rodent models of chronic GH excess have been useful tools to investigate the mechanism by which GH induces insulin resistance.

Growth Hormone-Induced Alterations in the Insulin-Signaling System

again GH causes the insulin resistance. insulin is valuable in

it can be seen that simultaneously with
insulin’s autacoid effect in stimulating lipogenesis it also
exhibits a chalonic effect in inhibiting glycerol release. It is
this inhibitory effect on lipolysis (and also glycolysis,
gluconeogenesis, ketogenesis and proteolysis) that accounts
for most of insulin’s physiological effects in vivo in man. It
is also this inhibitory effect that is mainly responsible for
insulin’s net anabolic actions.

http://joe.endocrinology-journals.org/content/170/1/13.full.pdf

so we need and want insulin and we want the body to be able to respond to it. if we inject GH or a GHRP while insulin levels are high then we decrease the bodies ability to get the benefits from insulin. which is counter productive for us. so by taking it at low glucose levels and therefore low insulin levels, when we get the GH spike it does its job and doesnt interfere with insulin doing its job.

I think when people are using peptides they are thinking more like the reverse which is they dont want insulin to interfere with the peptides fat burning effect...but I think you get the jist of it.
Take peptide at low blood sugar times so to speak.

This really still leaves gastric emptying questionable, as you could eat a high protein meal with non 'glucose carbs' as we call them, and still have slower gastric emptying but from a hormonal standpoint your insulin release is not high, so you could take your peptides at the 30 min mark post meal, if you wanted to.

 

[AllTheWay]

I think when people are using peptides they are thinking more like the reverse which is they dont want insulin to interfere with the peptides fat burning effect...but I think you get the jist of it.
Take peptide at low blood sugar times so to speak.

This really still leaves gastric emptying questionable, as you could eat a high protein meal with non 'glucose carbs' as we call them, and still have slower gastric emptying but from a hormonal standpoint your insulin release is not high, so you could take your peptides at the 30 min mark post meal, if you wanted to.

we are using the peptides to stimulate GH release right? so we essentially want to take them under the same conditions as we would inject GH?

 

[Glycomann]

The GHRPs minic ghrelin. Ghrelin is in balance with leptin to control hunger. Ghrelin is released from the fundus of the stomach in response to low chemanical and chemical signal load related to reduced foods in the stomach. Ghrelin actually increases gastric emptying and increases hunger as well as stimulates appetite via pituitary and hypothalamus stimulation. In this circuit GH is also released. When taking GHRP on a full stomach you may short cuircuit your natural pulse of ghrelin. This is the main point of timing with gastric emptying. You want to stay close to your natural pulse. You just want to increase it's intensity. Morning and night before bed are excellent times for this since the pulse is ready to go.

 

[ajdos]

we are using the peptides to stimulate GH release right? so we essentially want to take them under the same conditions as we would inject GH?

Well were you in your log? nope. You were doing it in hopes of joint healing. SO its gonna be an individuals decision as to their personal reasoning for taking a GH or peptide hormone.

I mean some people would probably not be so concerned with the ulitmate timing of taking their GH other people who ARE using it for fat loss will pick the optimum time to get the hormone to get its intended result, whatever that may be.