Capitalism really is good

[woodswise]

G Man, you clearly believe in unregulated capitalism the way most people believe in God. Unreservedly and without a doubt. With hatred for anything that contradicts it.

You asked for examples of people getting greedy and the system getting skewed. The fact you deny this happens shows your selective belief in the facts. So let's look at the 1890s and early 1900's just to begin. Garment workers were paid next to nothing, children worked in factories for starvation wages. When people advocated for child labor laws, the factories claimed they could not afford to go without the children. When people advocated for livable wages the factory owners claimed they would not be able to afford to pay those. And to a certain extent they were right: if one factory was forced to pay the higher price and to hire only adults (who cost more), they would have a hard time competing against the others. But when they all had to do the same thing, the cost of those things became built into everyone's products, and was a non-issue.

But the factory owners are always looking for ways to save money and get a leg up on the competition. Fastforward to the present. Cheap transportation has allowed factories on one side of the planet to supply markets on the opposite side of the planet. And we have factories in poor unregulated countries, with child labor, with starvation wages, and now American companies are struggling to compete.

So please tell me again, how I am re writing history?

 

[woodswise]

Gman, please give me one example of the unregulated free market, where the manufacturers did not dump their waste into rivers, and/or pump their unscrubbed smoke into the air. Give me one example where a common resource, available to the whole community, was not stripped bare and destroyed, when it was left unprotected for all to take from it.

And if you can tell me where that has happened, please answer this: are you a denier too, that the rivers in America were on fire in the '60s and '70s because the amount of oil and industrial waste that was being dumped into them? Do you deny the air quality of cities has improved and thus saved American lives and improved the quality of life in our country, since the advent of the clean air act? Do you deny that it is important to have our public resources (i.e. air, water, public lands) protected from private pollution and degradation?

Or is it communist to want to protect the air that we breathe, the water that we drink? Really? Do you really think it is communist use our common system of government to protect those resources for America's present and future? To protect them so our children and grand children have the opportunity to grow up healthy, without the threat of industrial chemicals tainting their genes, their bodies?

 

[Stumpy]

**** you..lol..haha..you live in dirt and filth..You are a POS...and what hppened to your big business deal? Lol...loser

Grow up!...can this troll be banned permanently?

 

[Samson]

[/B][/U]

^^^Total failure to know the facts. It wasn't the bankers fault . It was gov't regulating policy. It's sad a whole generation has been indoctrinated and not educated. Look into what caused the economic meltdown..FannieMae and Freddiemac and the gov't policy forced on them by the liberals that ran them. Barney Franke and Chris Dodd. Both should be in prison

^^^^^^
Spot on...

 

[graniteman]

G Man, you clearly believe in unregulated capitalism the way most people believe in God. Unreservedly and without a doubt. With hatred for anything that contradicts it.

You asked for examples of people getting greedy and the system getting skewed. The fact you deny this happens shows your selective belief in the facts. So let's look at the 1890s and early 1900's just to begin. Garment workers were paid next to nothing, children worked in factories for starvation wages. When people advocated for child labor laws, the factories claimed they could not afford to go without the children. When people advocated for livable wages the factory owners claimed they would not be able to afford to pay those. And to a certain extent they were right: if one factory was forced to pay the higher price and to hire only adults (who cost more), they would have a hard time competing against the others. But when they all had to do the same thing, the cost of those things became built into everyone's products, and was a non-issue.

But the factory owners are always looking for ways to save money and get a leg up on the competition. Fastforward to the present. Cheap transportation has allowed factories on one side of the planet to supply markets on the opposite side of the planet. And we have factories in poor unregulated countries, with child labor, with starvation wages, and now American companies are struggling to compete.

So please tell me again, how I am re writing history?

As I stated before wood, there is no reasoning with you, so no I won't go into it yet again. You brush aside facts with the conjecture pablum you were spoon fed. I don't blame you but the teachers and professors that should have been teaching you the 3 r's but instead have taken to forcing and indoctrinating their beliefs and dogma on young impressionable minds. College IMO is a waste of money for the most part nowdays.
Here is your thesis in a nutshell...America is evil and destroying the ''enviroment''. We should emulate this ''nirvana' 'society that doesn't and has never existed. Let's destroy OUR economic and manufacturing base and relinquish OUR standing as the top dog so we can all join hands and sing...Koom Bai ya.
I make no apologies for America, NONE. We have shed more blood and treasure to Free more people and attempt to help Poor countries (Somalia???). Your way of thinking isn't new wood it's been hatching since the 60's so don't think you're on some new crusade. Like I said your group has absolutely destroyed America's dominance in manufacturing of ALL material and goods.

 

[Jenner]

Grow up!...can this troll be banned permanently?

might be a possibility

 

[tommyguns2]

pure, unregulated capitalism can not and will not sustain people in the future.

Not trying to be a butthead here, but please elaborate. Further, in what ways will regulated capitalism fix it to become sustainable.

I am pretty libertarian, but I do agree that some regulation is valuable. For example, I think zoning laws, while placing some limits on what you can do with your private property, can operate to improve property values for all. (not retroactive zoning, of course). for example, most of us would support a zoning regulation that prohibits your neighbor from installing a toxic waste incinerator or nuculear waste dump in their back yard, or prohibiting a brothel next door.

However, in many cases, you see gov't regulation (often times well intentioned) creating a market dislocation that creates a new problem, which then begets another regulation to fix the problem the gov't action caused, which creates yet another market dislocation. Take a look at U.S. farm policy as one example. Obamacare is looking to be another great case study of good intentions gone awry.

 

[JR Ewing]

The Dodd - Frank bill is another big govt blanket attempt to make everyone "equal", regardless of credit history, stability, income, DTI, etc.

And now you have Eric Holder extorting JPM Chase for billions because he's holding them responsible for toxic debt they unknowingly acquired when they bought out distressed lenders such as Countrywide. Holder is forcing JPMC to give to more govt sponsored "equal opportunity" housing programs that force lenders to gamble on high risk borrowers who are largely not cut out for home ownership. It's the same thing that got us into the mess we were in 5-6 years ago.

 

[tommyguns2]

Gman, please give me one example of the unregulated free market, where the manufacturers did not dump their waste into rivers, and/or pump their unscrubbed smoke into the air. Give me one example where a common resource, available to the whole community, was not stripped bare and destroyed, when it was left unprotected for all to take from it.

I will agree with you that this is one key area where regulation is necessary and apprropriate. In general, whenever there is a resource that is not privately owned, but shared you can get overutilization and other issues. It's called the "tragedy of the commons". This happens typically with pollution, water use, etc.

Saying that regulation is necessary, however, does not mean that it should be unfettered. IMO, it needs to be as narrowly tailored as possible to achieve the well defined objective with the least impact on private property rights and liberty interests. In these cases, the EPA should be extremely transparent in what their objectives are, give plenty of time for public inspection and comment, etc.

That has been the exact opposite of the actions of the EPA over the past decade.

 

[Swiper]

So our present day model of capitalism has Walmart paying workers crap, and we tax payers subsidizing their survival. CRAZY.
.

Walmart profit 2012 = 17 billion

Walmart employees = 2.2 Million

17 billion divided by 2.2 million = a raise of $7,727 per employee per year.

Equals a raise of $3.71 per hour per employee.


That's with Walmart making NO PROFIT.

so you advocate raise wages $3.71 per hour and you'd be happy? And that's with walmart making no profits. why be in business if you don't make profits?

 

[Cosmokramer]

Grow up!...can this troll be banned permanently?

Not a troll,you have no idea what I am talking about do you? Do you have any idea? I gurantee you don't ,so maybe you should be banned for an ignorant post like yours.

 

[Cosmokramer]

Grow up!...can this troll be banned permanently?

One more thing who have I trolled? Oh you mean the three ****ing POS that follow me to every board? Oh those loser..well if thats the case then I am guilty of trolling 3 ****ing loser trolls..and btw I am not the only one so get your ****ing facts straight before you comment on shit that you do not know a god damn thing about got it?