Blood results in. Need help moving forward.

[macgyver]

Hey guys. New to the forum. Long story short a friend (IronInsanity) invited me over here to help answer some of my questions.

Here it is in a nutshell. Lifetime natural, no PH use either. Fairly well developed, 185lbs 5'9 lean 18" arms, 46" chest, 31" waist, 24" quads. Strength OK, bench 325, deadlift low 500's, (havent squatted heavy in some time but working sets with 315 ATG). I have only really been seriously back training about a total of 20 months after more then a decade out and made good progress.

I would like to gain 7-10lbs more lean mass eventually.

In thinking of how I wanted to go about this, I recently got a full physical and blood work done. All my blood work came back great. Slightly elevated BUN (normal when lifting), low cholesterol, liver, tryroid ok.

I also had them run a check of my Test levels.

Total Test 607ng/dL (from what I understand this is just about avg for someone my age. (almost 40)

Free test+ weakly bound 57.7 (9.5%)

The free test is the weird part. Normal ranges are 1-2.5% and even the upper end of the scale for 18-25 year olds is 41. Mine came back at 57.7


What does this all mean? Does this mean that despite my total levels being normal, the usable test in my body is at very high levels? Is this correct?


I am also a long term person. I have never used AAS up to this point, but am now strongly considering it. Being that I am only looking for 7-10lbs, am I foolish for considering this at my age?

Also, if my free test is higher then normal, basically off the charts from what I can find, am I risking screwing up a good thing by experimenting with a simple test cycle or two?


I am sorry if this is a stupid question, but I really dont know much of anything on how to interpret these results. I dont know if 57 free is really "high" and if that means my body should still be able to make good gains without....etc

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks!!!

 

[IronInsanity]

Bumped for some answers. To me your test looks OK. But that's not to say that enhancement isn't the way to go. You may not be ready for TRT... just a few low dose cycles with the proper ancillaries. Do proper PCT to keep your boys producing. Then down the road look at TRT as an option. My .02, but there are many more scientific minds on here then mine who can chime in.

 

[Glycomann]

Seems you have naturally high free test. Naturally you have the free test levels of someone on 200-300 mg of testosterone cypionate. As long as your prostate is OK and you feel good I would consider it a blessing. I didn't see any estradiol numbers ir DHT numbers not that they would be evaluated in a simple health profile. If you have any problems like prostate hypertrophy of gynecomastia then maybe look further into blood work. Otherwise, probably you are genetically predisposed to high free test levels. Also listen to your doctor. Some of them actually know what they are talking about.

 

[macgyver]

Seems you have naturally high free test.

Is that ok that my overall test is just avg and my free test is high? Would this be equivalent to someone that had higher overall test (but with a smaller percentage free?)

Naturally you have the free test levels of someone on 200-300 mg of testosterone cypionate. As long as your prostate is OK and you feel good I would consider it a blessing. I didn't see any estradiol numbers ir DHT numbers not that they would be evaluated in a simple health profile. If you have any problems like prostate hypertrophy of gynecomastia then maybe look further into blood work. Otherwise, probably you are genetically predisposed to high free test levels. Also listen to your doctor. Some of them actually know what they are talking about.

My doc only did test. I asked for a hormone panel on my physical and this is all he ordered. After getting the results back, he said "everything looks fine", so he offered little direction. He did not even mention that my free was off the upper end of the chart signifigantly. 140% over the high end for a 25 y.o. Will this be as good as an advantage as having say a 900-1000 total test? (where guys like to get on HRT)

This might get a laugh here, but I ran a 6 week cycle of DAA stacked with DS Triazole and had what I thought were great results. (strength increases/mood elevation/increased recovery). I was thinking of doing it again and getting full blood work done in the middle of it to see if it was all in my head.

Anyway, my main decision is if I should, run a test cycle to achieve my desired goals. 7-10 more lbs lean. (bascilly 190-195 @ 10%bf). Having no experience, I am not sure what to expect (gains wise) and pros/cons.

I appreciate any help truly.
Thanks!

 

[IronInsanity]

Anyway, my main decision is if I should, run a test cycle to achieve my desired goals. 7-10 more lbs lean. (bascilly 190-195 @ 10%bf). Having no experience, I am not sure what to expect (gains wise) and pros/cons.

Best thing to do is to do plenty of reading. There are some good stickies here on steroid profiles, etc. I'd also recommend Glycomann's articles over at WCBB. Start by forgetting everything you thought you knew about AAS, through the media and from non-users... it's 90% false. There is always the risk of sides, but most are manageable, if done in moderation. Most newbs are worried about gyno, their nuts shrinking and their hair falling out. There are ancillaries to prevent the first two and unless you're predisposed to the hair issue, it's usually not a problem. But... you need to decide on a personal level what the risks and rewards are and make a personal choice based on it. The only way you can do that is to be informed. Read... read... read. There are lots of knowledgeable bros here who will be patient with questions if you are making the effort to learn and also stick around as a contributing member.

 

[SAD]

Macguyver, I'm going to go against the traditional wisdom and bro-lore and recommend that for your particular goals, a simple anavar-only cycle for 6-8 weeks would be your best choice.

"WHAT! DID SAD JUST RECOMMEND AN ORAL-ONLY CYCLE? OF ANAVAR NONETHELESS?" Yes, I did. But read what he is looking for. He wants to add and keep 7-10 pounds and stay lean. This isn't a guy who eventually wants to become a mass monster that can't wipe his own ass (no offense meant to you mass monsters, lol). He has been at it for a while and just wants a few more pounds. Now I know some of us, me included, said the same thing our first time and now we're hooked. But you can't assume he'll fall into the same "trap" [read: love affair], so you have to go on what he has said.

The var will give you that 10 pounds you want, and while it will shut you down, it will be a quicker (dare I say MUCH quicker) recovery than if you ran a test-only cycle for 10-12 weeks (the normal recommendation for a first cycle).

Food for thought. As has been said, do your own research. You will find there are two conflicting schools of thought on oral-only cycles, but dig deep enough, and you'll see why I think it makes sense for your particular goal.

 

[macgyver]

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Yep....been doing a bunch of reading for sure. This seems like a good place to share info. Lot of knowledgeable people.

I will take your advice and continue reading.

I am just not sure what to think of those results.....I am guessing it is a good thing!

While researching, I am going to experiment with running DAA again, this time with bloodwork to see if it really has an effect. I will start it after first of the year when things settle down and will surly share the results. I can finally see if it is bunk or actually doing something more then placebo.

 

[SAD]

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Yep....been doing a bunch of reading for sure. This seems like a good place to share info. Lot of knowledgeable people.

I will take your advice and continue reading.

I am just not sure what to think of those results.....I am guessing it is a good thing!

While researching, I am going to experiment with running DAA again, this time with bloodwork to see if it really has an effect. I will start it after first of the year when things settle down and will surly share the results. I can finally see if it is bunk or actually doing something more then placebo.

Your free test is more important than total test when concerning sex drive, strength/mass building, sense of well-being, etc. As Glycoman stated, as long as you don't have prostrate/DHT issues, it is a great thing to have an abundance of free-T. I would rather have 500 ng/dl total-T and 50 ng/dl free-T, than 1000 ng/dl total-T and 25 ng/dl free-T.

 

[SHINE]

DAA stacked with DS Triazole ? I'm not familar with those but i'm guessin there like ATD which acts like aromasin . ATD the herbal version of Aromasin was clinicaly used (experimented with to boost test levels while lowering SHBG) IMO this is why you got such high free test levels. Studies run it was shown to lower shbg and raise free test levels.

That and some are blessed with lower SHBG which alows higher free naty test levels. (BCI)

Thing I will say if you decide to use aas the older we get and it is worse at 40 Hpta doesn't recover as well as someone in there 20 to late 20's.
Estrogen is the main inibitor of the HPTA although androgens impact it to. SAD made a good point on VAR for an extra boost and it doesn't convert to estrogen so there is less impact on the HPTA. A short 4-6 wk cycle of VAR - with hcg and proper diet/training will give you those 7 lbs.

I'll give you a tip here, Just get you some Aromasin which blows the natural aromatase inhibators away and will boost your test levels up with out the rebound of shbg and estrogen that can follow the others. (aromasin lowers SHBG to) IF you choose to use anavar low dose hcg, than do a few weeks of clo/nov followed by a couple weeks of low dose aromasin.

You Could do short 4wks cycles OF anavar with low dose HCG , the HCG just helps to keep choles in check and still gives you nat test levels with the anavar.

I get tired of the must do TEST with anavar, Not if you use hcg cause you geting your test there.

 

[macgyver]

Wow....I now realize just how much I have to learn.

As for the DAA, it is a natural amino acid that in a clinical study (in healthy young HUMANS) showed an average 40% increase in test. (only real clinically proven test booster)


Here is a link with some info:


http://www.ergo-log.com/dasparticacidtestosterone.html


The Triazole is herbal product which claims to boost test and lower estrogen, but not annihilating it. I have seen some individuals post bloodwook on it and it has shown decent results 50-70% increases with a 50% estrogen cut. The triazole it is really taken in the stack to avoid the possibility of issues from the DAA.

I know this stuff is nothing like the real thing. I ran 6 weeks of it about 4 months ago and felt it worked good. (no real mass gains in that short time though....at least measurable). I stayed off it cause I knew I would be getting bloodwork done at years end and I wanted honest results.....and a script for TRT if I could get it! .

I had a real bad head injury a few years back and it has been in the forefront of the news a bunch about former NFL players, etc....suffering low T after a head injury. Guess that turns out not to be my case, but I wanted to find out.


As for my goals....I really dont think I would want to be much bigger then I am now. I am not huge, but I carry decent size at 5'9. (18" arms, 46" chest). I am really not picturing wanting to be over 195 lean.
But that is what all women say when they get implants and then they regret not getting DD's!

I do know that one can never know the future. I have waited 20 years to get to this point and if I do start out, it will be slowly.

Cant thank you guys enough for the advice.

 

[macgyver]

I'll give you a tip here, Just get you some Aromasin which blows the natural aromatase inhibators away and will boost your test levels up with out the rebound of shbg and estrogen that can follow the others. (aromasin lowers SHBG to)

Are you saying just run the Aromasin by itself? I looked up some studies and it certainly looks interesting. 25 mg dose raising test from mid range 600 to 1400.

In your experience, is this enough to see real results. The herbals I have used in the past never resulted in mass increases, but I did see strength spikes

 

[SHINE]

Are you saying just run the Aromasin by itself? I looked up some studies and it certainly looks interesting. 25 mg dose raising test from mid range 600 to 1400.

In your experience, is this enough to see real results. The herbals I have used in the past never resulted in mass increases, but I did see strength spikes

It will help but won't feel like or give results like taking an actual anabolic anavar or test.

IMO wont be a whole lot greater than what your taking, eugonadal subjects and it brought there test levels up to the higher ranges with an 60% increase. Impressive realy
Aromasin being a good testosterone booster , it's hard to say till you try it realy. You could experience to low of estrogen as well which will kill sex drive.

One thing that has been proven with aromasin is you don't get a rebound and elevated aromatase protein after the drug is discontinued which can happen with some of the others, Not sure if the below Trilazole can cause that or not.

Pharmacokinetics and Dose Finding of a Potent Aromatase Inhibitor, Aromasin (Exemestane), in Young Males

The Trilazole looks to be a good herbal anti-aromatase, I was impressed with with it after reading the below studies. brassaioopsis glomerulata (Araliaceae) being the actual anti-aromatase.
Isolation and Characterization of Aromatase Inhibitors from Brassaiopsis glomerulata (Araliaceae)
brassaioopsis glomerulata (Araliaceae) anti-aromatase.

ScienceDirect - Phytochemistry Letters : Isolation and characterization of aromatase inhibitors from Brassaiopsis glomerulata (Araliaceae)
Isolation and Characterization of Aromatase I... [Phytochem Lett. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI