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Are we born good, bad, or as a blank slate

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midevil

midevil

TID Board Of Directors
Jan 20, 2011
1,576
1,245
We’ve all fought back thoughts of or have acted out in bad or violent behavior.

Humans are born bad and have to learn to behave proper. No question on it imo.
 
1bigun11

1bigun11

MuscleHead
Oct 23, 2010
2,142
1,832
I believe free choice is in play, as we grow up we have the ability to understand or at least reasonably think of the consequences or rewards of actions which is a learned behavior. I think we are born bad then taught how to act. The degree of accountability we were held to tends to follow us. crimes of passion or pure rage we loose the ability to think and resort back to primal brain then its oh fuck what did I do now I feel bad. What about feeling bad only because we were caught.
Little boy #1 is taught by his coaches that winning is the only thing that matters. He learns discipline and gains the ability to intensely focus on his goals, without much regard for the feelings of others.

Little boy #2 is taught by his mother that winning doesn’t matter, and what really matters is to be nice to everyone and that everyone has fun. He lives the “golden rule.” He is unable to save anything, because whenever he gets two of something he feels guilty and gives one away.

Which little boy is “good?”
Which is selfish?
Which is best equipped to survive (even thrive) in a hostile society?
 
Yano

Yano

VIP Member
Sep 18, 2022
888
882
Little boy #1 is taught by his coaches that winning is the only thing that matters. He learns discipline and gains the ability to intensely focus on his goals, without much regard for the feelings of others.

Little boy #2 is taught by his mother that winning doesn’t matter, and what really matters is to be nice to everyone and that everyone has fun. He lives the “golden rule.” He is unable to save anything, because whenever he gets two of something he feels guilty and gives one away.

Which little boy is “good?”
Which is selfish?
Which is best equipped to survive (even thrive) in a hostile society?
This goes back to my child hood. You would get caught doin what ever , and while he was lumping ya up and tossing you around he would ask you ,,, do you know why your getting beat ? ..

Being young you answer ,, cus i did (insert bad deed here)

Wrong , the reply

No Stupid , You got beat cus you got caught.

So the lesson I learned very young wasn't - be a good boy ,,
it was - don't get caught.

Outlaw 101

I think we as parents have good intentions but there are times we fail to see we are responsible for the creation of our own monsters and demons , even if they are our offspring.
 
1bigun11

1bigun11

MuscleHead
Oct 23, 2010
2,142
1,832
We’ve all fought back thoughts of or have acted out in bad or violent behavior.

Humans are born bad and have to learn to behave proper. No question on it imo.
If humans are born bad and have to be taught to behave proper, who is to blame when society fails to teach them? And if society is to be blamed for its failure, how can society turn around and punish the child, when society (not the child) is the entity that has failed, and the child is merely doing what the child was born to do?
 
jipped genes

jipped genes

VIP Member
Oct 22, 2022
1,488
1,838
I think we are ingrained to be productive members of a group. Things have changed a lot obviously but in prehistory or even pre-language we all got along for the most part. Is it bad for the younger stronger male to challenge and smash the brains of an old alpha who was the leader of a pack of early humans? The answer is "NO". Having the strongest smartest leader of a tribe is beneficial to all in the tribe. One early human by themselves would have very little chance of living very long but a group of humans working together...

We are just animals and are encoded with instinct to get along in a group lest we be cast out and are eaten by a sabertooth tiger. Most kids are inherently good for the most part until they hit puberty. Yes, we can be selfish, yes we can be petty and violent, but I think that is aberrant.

Also we as people are very tribal. Look at chimps. We are just 98.8% genetically the same.
 
1bigun11

1bigun11

MuscleHead
Oct 23, 2010
2,142
1,832
I think we are ingrained to be productive members of a group. Things have changed a lot obviously but in prehistory or even pre-language we all got along for the most part. Is it bad for the younger stronger male to challenge and smash the brains of an old alpha who was the leader of a pack of early humans? The answer is "NO". Having the strongest smartest leader of a tribe is beneficial to all in the tribe. One early human by themselves would have very little chance of living very long but a group of humans working together...

We are just animals and are encoded with instinct to get along in a group lest we be cast out and are eaten by a sabertooth tiger. Most kids are inherently good for the most part until they hit puberty. Yes, we can be selfish, yes we can be petty and violent, but I think that is aberrant.

Also we as people are very tribal. Look at chimps. We are just 98.8% genetically the same.
I recently saw a documentary on chimps living in the wild in an unexplored area of Africa. It really was amazing. It seems like there is a certain size population that a tribe can reach before it inevitably splits into two or three factions, resulting in a war between all three.

Their wars are bloody and cruel, btw, dismembering being common, going far beyond what is necessary to achieve the kill.

It’s as if cruelty and wars between members of a species, wars and cruelty for no apparent purpose, are sometimes necessary to develop the skills required for the species as a whole to survive.
 
Glycomann

Glycomann

VIP Member
Jan 19, 2011
1,270
1,317
Why is there good and evil? What is truth and what is anti-truth? Tend toward Logos or end in chaos. If you don't know Logos then you cannot walk down the path towards truth. Man interacts on 4 plane: Physical, emotional, intellectual, and spiritual. Remove any one of those and there will be problems. If you want to get close to the answer about good and evil have a child. Observe that child from the earliest days. If you fail to see the Divine spark in that child then you have no connection to the spiritual plane and you have your own personal answer. Seek truth and you will find goodness. Do not seek truth and find chaos.
 
1bigun11

1bigun11

MuscleHead
Oct 23, 2010
2,142
1,832
Some say humans are born (cursed) with the knowledge of good and evil from the time they are born. Because they are born knowing right from wrong, it is entirely proper to punish them when they choose to do wrong.

Under this theory you become what you become based on your personal choices. You can develop yourself to be a productive member of society, or you can develop yourself to be a serial killer.

Your responses to the choices you face in life are up to you. And trying to blame your parents or your subculture for what you become (or fail to become) is nothing but a pathetic excuse.
 
Thrawn

Thrawn

MuscleHead
Jun 12, 2023
919
485
If humans are born bad and have to be taught to behave proper, who is to blame when society fails to teach them? And if society is to be blamed for its failure, how can society turn around and punish the child, when society (not the child) is the entity that has failed, and the child is merely doing what the child was born to do?
Good one. Little short on time I have some weak counters let me ponder see if I can get them stronger. In the meantime as adults we are held accountable to obscure laws that one would not think is a law and we are told ignorance is no excuse.
 
1bigun11

1bigun11

MuscleHead
Oct 23, 2010
2,142
1,832
Good one. Little short on time I have some weak counters let me ponder see if I can get them stronger. In the meantime as adults we are held accountable to obscure laws that one would not think is a law and we are told ignorance is no excuse.
I like how you think. I like kicking ideas around, being a devil’s advocate, assuming for the sake of argument that something I don’t believe is true, just to offer some counter-arguments.

Thanks for the discussion, man
 
Thrawn

Thrawn

MuscleHead
Jun 12, 2023
919
485
I like how you think. I like kicking ideas around, being a devil’s advocate, assuming for the sake of argument that something I don’t believe is true, just to offer some counter-arguments.

Thanks for the discussion, man
Lol I love playing devil advocate more of a mental exercise for me. In real life I don't get a lot of social interaction. I feel I'm living in Idiocracy. The forums is where I tend to come off somewhat eccentric.
 
Warhead14

Warhead14

TID Board Of Directors
Jul 23, 2011
1,353
969
Based on how much I am like my mother and father, I think we have nature and nurture that determine that. Imagine being born with the priviledge of Gavin Newsom, he could do whatever he wants. So his parents are probebly fucked up narcissist as well. Imagine being a black kid in the city where the only reason you were conceived was to get more money and you are 1 of 7. Both things play. Then there is the psycho path.... Im not qualified to characterize that.
 
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