Anti-Smooth Muscle Antibody / Auto-Immune Hepatitis - Positive Test

[genetic freak]

Haha. I had a stint in the ER on a Friday and they freaked out when my creatinine was 1.77. I took the next week off from the gym and had labs pulled the following Friday (7 days no training) and creatinine had already dropped to 1.41. They wanted to send me to a nephrologist, which I politely told them to fuck off and asked if they did a cystatin C test. They refused to pull labs for it. I went and had it done myself and GFR came back at 86.

Now to your question, I have no idea. However, you mentioned your doctors always want to send you to a specialist. I wonder how many of us who cycled on and off, especially tren and orals, would end up with similar results as you if we went to a specialist to be tested for autoimmune hepatitis? When I sit with my PCM and he goes over my lab work and something is out of range, he acts like it is a big deal and I just tell him, "I don't care," because I know why it reads that way, i.e. I just came off something or am currently taking something that caused that. He always tells me I have CKD, but has never done a cystatin C test. I have and I am normal.

 

[Wilson6]

I checked a couple of case reports of guys that ended up in the ER with acute hepatic dysfunction from C-17 AAS. There was clear evidence (labs, biopsy, etc.) of acute liver toxicity/damage, but in both cases their autoimmune tests were negative.

 

[beefnewton]

Didn't you have like 50 mRNA Covid shots? Kind of a wild variable here. No one can predict how your immune system is going to respond with that. I'm sure Pfizer or Moderna know, though...

 

[Pig Vomit]

Didn't you have like 50 mRNA Covid shots? Kind of a wild variable here. No one can predict how your immune system is going to respond with that. I'm sure Pfizer or Moderna know, though...

Well, not quite 50, but it was 5. Not gonna lie, that thought had occurred to me. I had 3 Pfizer vaccines in 2021, last one September 2021, and my first anti-smooth muscle antibody test was in November of 2021 and that was negative. Had Moderna non-bivalent in April 2022 and Moderna bivalent in September 2022. My next anti-smooth muscle antibody test was in January of 2023, and that's when I first popped positive. So, yeah, maybe. Have not had any vaccines since Sep 2022. Perhaps there was something about Moderna or the bivalent as opposed to the other ones that made it pop, and as time goes by and it's out of my system now I'm negative? Literature says there is no known cause for auto-immune hepatitis. No correlation with other causes of hepatitis.

 

[Glycomann]

I don't know the specifics of that test but smooth muscle is in pretty much all of your organs other than heart. It's also in all of you vasculature. If you have normal liver values maybe the antibody is targeting other smooth muscle. Have you done ony of your inflammatory marker tests? If you have autoimmunity going on inflammatory markers will be elevated.

 

[Pig Vomit]

I did just find this little gem: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9052185/

 

[Pig Vomit]

I don't know the specifics of that test but smooth muscle is in pretty much all of your organs other than heart. It's also in all of you vasculature. If you have normal liver values maybe the antibody is targeting other smooth muscle. Have you done ony of your inflammatory marker tests? If you have autoimmunity going on inflammatory markers will be elevated.

I have had the inflammatory marker tests and they were normal. And, BTW, I've got absolutely no clinical symptoms of auto-immune hepatitis other than the positive test.

 

[beefnewton]

I did just find this little gem: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9052185/

Interesting find. I try to pace myself with matching up research with my own ills. Almost 100% of the time, I'm wrong. But it's interesting there even exists an article about a direct connection between the two, even though it discusses that it's not exclusive to Covid but can happen with other vaccinations. But the good thing, if it is the real culprit, is that there is such a high rate of resolution. So basically you just wait... and use more steroids. I know, they mean stuff like Prednisone, but...

 

[JackD]

So I did a little more digging, wanted to ask, do you have any arthritis? Knowing your white cell count is low. I believe you said that in a previous post. I’m more inclined to think, you might have a genetic predisposition that puts you vs someone else at a higher risk for autoimmune hepatitis.

That said, I dug a little deeper into this today. To me, and this is what I’m piecing together from your posts. You had drug induced (superdrol) liver damage. For whatever reason, your body induced an immune response to attack your liver damage also destroying healthy cells in the process. What happened, is your liver slowly healed, and the disease went into remission. I think the only reason it went this way is you stopped your stuff and were not continuing to damage your liver. everyone posted on here it’s okay to have higher liver enzymes and that yours are normal after a cycle. Well I disagree, it does more damage than we think. I learned my hard lesson back in 2010 when my enzymes were 2 X highest limit. It took about a year for them to normalize. I went through ultrasounds and other tests. I baby it and cleanse my liver and take liver care. The point is, once the liver gets do scared, you’re screwed.

 

[Pig Vomit]

@JackD Yes, I do have some osteoarthritis in my knees, shoulders and back, but do not have rheumatoid or psoriatic arthritis.

I recently had a hepatic elastography, results attached, which was essentially normal (it measures stiffness of the liver, which is a sign of scarring). Here is the definition of the stages:

There are five stages (F0: no scarring (no fibrosis); F1: minimal scarring; F2: scarring has occurred and extends outside the liver area (significant fibrosis); F3: fibrosis spreading and forming bridges with other fibrotic liver areas (severe fibrosis); F4: cirrhosis or advanced scarring).

So I am below minimal scarring, much closer to F0 than F1, but what I'm not clear on is whether that means I really have any scarring at all, and whether there is such a thing as measured stiffness below 5.1 (I'm at 5.5)

Curious, JackD, do you still supplement, and if so, what do you use and what is your care regimen for your liver?

Any and all comments and thoughts on all this are welcome and appreciated.

 

[JackD]

@Pig Vomit that makes sense about some mild arthritis. Thank you for the info on your liver and the ultrasound. You have a very low stage where you show something but you’re also close to zero and normal. So probably your wake up call to say, time to pivot and adjust.

To answer your question, no orals for me anymore. I don’t take anything that will cause liver damage now or strain the liver in any significant way. I also haven’t blasted in years, the only thing I’ll probably do is add in some very low doses of NPP or maybe a Vial of
Tren to my TRT dose, and maybe go to 400/ week for a short stint. I still haven’t made up my mind.

so for my liver, I take liver care every day. I’m down to just 1 cap a day in the AM. Used to take 4, then 2. Coffee also protects the liver and cleanses it. I normally drink coffee every day. However, right now with this heat, F that, it’s either C4 packets or Celsius packets. I take my vitamins, greens powder and super reds powder, lots of water, and clean food. Not anything with tons of fat. I do have some alcohol, but that’s a few times a month. The key is moderation. As for any other supplements, just protein, BCAA’s glutamine, and a pre workout that has zero creatine. Oh yeah, just some DMAA here and there I still got. Did I answer your question?

 

[Pig Vomit]

Yes, that answered my questions. I still have a few for the liver specialists I'm seeing over the next weeks, not the least of which is what the results of the elastography really mean. I've talked to a liver specialist PA, who keeps telling me everything is normal and to avoid alcohol and to eat a healthy diet (which means no real changes). After I see the PA again I see the liver doc (used to see a liver specialist MD, she transferred, LONG wait for replacement doc so I've been seeing PA). I'm going to press them HARD on what all this means, because I'm really not clear on the whole question of the elastography results meaning of F0-1. I messaged the office about the flip-flop on the anti-smooth muscle antibody, and all I got was a reply from an assistant saying everything was normal and didn't answer my main question about the meaning of the flip-flop. The positive test can also mean mononucleosis, but I tested negative for that as well. I'm on a first name basis with the phlebotomist, people are gonna start talking.

I do nothing for my liver other than take some Coq-Enzyme 10. And a single cup of coffee everyday, because it is necessary even when it's 105 at 9AM. Is this the "Liver Care" you speak of? https://www.amazon.com/Himalaya-LiverCare-Cleanse-Capsules-Supply/dp/B000H87TIG

I'm going to stay the clean course for now and I'm sure they're going to want repeat anti-smooth muscle antibody blood tests (hello again, hot phlebotomist!). I'll post back after my upcoming appointments and will re-assess at that time.

In the meantime....if anyone else wants to chime in....please do.