what causes knots

[RedNeck]

Why does some gear cause knots? I am on a test triblend and the knots are pretty gnarly if I don't properly tend to the injection area

 

[IronCore]

I wish I knew the scientific answer on this redneck... and I have noticed the same thing... not just with the blend you speak of... even with Organon sust 250...

The only conclusion I have found through trial and error with both HG and UGL is that it is typically from short esters and/or high concentration...

Usually the shorter the ester or higher the concentration the more painful...Just the nature of the beast really... I have found that mixing another compound such as EQ or B12 even with the gear in question works well to curb the pain...

The most crippling gear I ever used was Test Prop 150mg/ml... the pain was completely unbearable and I discontinued the use after the second bottle... and gave the other two away.

It really just lends itself to the old saying... No Pain no Gain

I know you already knew all of this.. just wanted you to know you are not alone in this question... Hopefully someone will be able to break it down further...

 

[AllTheWay]

im sure that apollo has a very good scientific answer to this but until then the common sense answer is inflammation.

when you inject a foreign substance into the muscle the bodies immediate response is to clean it up. depending on how big the molecules, the type of molecule and the type of carrier used etc etc the body will mount an inflammatory reaction against it. the bigger the reaction, the bigger the knot, if you will.

 

[Cabo Jo]

Gear with EO,allways gave me knots.Then I got some Alpha Pharms test that has EO,no knots at all.Not sure, but I think there is different grades of EO used.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

if its tri-blend it could be as simple as the concentration is too high. there are certain amounts per ml that you shouldnt go over if you want no pain.

 

[JackD]

Yeah Apollo will give a good answer. However, if your gear is high in EO, plus dosed in high mg/ml concentrations, or just dosed in high concentrations, then there is not enough oil then after the product is injected to keep the substance stable without crashing after 24hrs and leaving raw hormone crystals causing inflammation inside the injection site used. If you try mixing some sterile oil with your injections you will see a vast improvement, and should have almost no knots.

 

[Mad-Bull]

Yeah Apollo will give a good answer. However, if your gear is high in EO, plus dosed in high mg/ml concentrations, or just dosed in high concentrations, then there is not enough oil then after the product is injected to keep the substance stable without crashing after 24hrs and leaving raw hormone crystals causing inflammation inside the injection site used. If you try mixing some sterile oil with your injections you will see a vast improvement, and should have almost no knots.

Agree with this completely, for some reason I get this quite a bit with certain labs UG tren A, I always cut it myself and that completely stopped the horrible knots I was getting from it.

 

[apollo]

JackD is pretty darn close and ATW has it right the part she spoke of too. By the way thanks for everybody's confidence that i would have the answer.
There are many scenarios where knotting may happen and this is not something that alot of jokers on this board could'nt answer, by the way.

Scenario 1 (I think most common):
Subject injects a product into muscle- then the body absorbs solvents and carriers at a faster rate than actual ingredient leaving those ingredients (crystalized) at the site and as ATW said the body attacks this and causes inflammation at the very least. Sterile abcess- much worse.

Why does this happen? Well in some of these UG formulations- it holds ok in solution at the proper storage temps. That's all fine and dandy. BUT- what happens to what once in the muscle? What does the body absorb and/or process the fastest and is that medicine so into the solution that it will be absorbed together at a more even rate? Or is the rate of absorption at a more equal rate(less common).

What causes this: The super high mg products or hard to hold products. Usually bc they are not properly formulated and for some instances there is no proper formulation for these super high mg prods or hard to hold products for some ppl. They are a liability- PERIOD.
Why Pharma co's dont produce them in high mg products. Yes one can use Guaiacol or Benzyl or Octyl Salycilate and these both fight inflamation and mask pain as any NSAID would but even these have their limits on what they can hold and that limit is even less inside the body bc the way the bod will process them and break them down. possibly leaving medicine at injection site.

No longer in order of commonality:

Scenario 2(as related to #1):
These harsh solvents and such can cause the problem themselves:
possibly by tissue damage causing injury
possibly by cell damage causing mild necrosis
and in case of the salycilates (octyl or both) it can crystalize itself in the body.
And a host of other rare pssibilities like reversible nephritis(renal failure) due to delayed hypersensitivity.

In the Case of EO- alot of allergic reactions to it and just plain sensitivity to it. Any product carried in it needs to be PH balanced for 1 thing to make it more tolerable. I quit using it.

So the question for the hard core is:
Risk the above and harsh solvents which at very least are bad for me or inject more easily bio-processed oil that is good for me if it's certain kinds: cottonseed, sesame seed, safflower, grapeseed are all full of ant- oxidents however food grade should only be used if it's refined and expeller pressed. And even then - not so much. I forget the name of what the problem chemical/s that's in food grade oils but I'll look it up. Pharm grade carrier oils should be used.

Scenario 3:
Problem- improper filtering, transferring techniques cause contamination and re-contamination of gear.
When gear is exposed to air after filtering it recontaminates it with bacteria, pollen, allergens, pollutants, contaminants can be from cocaine dust to fecal matter to human or pet dander.

How does this cause knots besides the obvious allergic reaction and foreign substances? Well- bacteria or spores- if it's the right ones and bacteriostatics like BA dont kill it. Bacterio scidals kill, bacterio statics prevent growth. However BA will kill most bacteria- not spores- BUT when dead bacteria goes into the body- do you think the body is gonna wait to discover it's dead? or attack it immediately then figure it out? Ever had 1 day roid flu as opposed to longer even with long acting compounds? probably due to dead bacteria or other contaminates in the gear.

Scenario 4: (Related to #1)
shoot into scar tissue and it get stuck there causing a knot on up to sterile abcess.

And that's all I can think of right now as I'm in a hurry : )

I bet Shine can elaborate.

 

[RedNeck]

So how much eq should I mix in to help ease the pain. I am taking 1mg twice a week of thus triblend test that's sitting at 500mg/ml

 

[apollo]

So how much eq should I mix in to help ease the pain. I am taking 1mg twice a week of thus triblend test that's sitting at 500mg/ml

What is in the tri blend?

In general EQ may or may not help.

EQ is easy to hold so has little solvents/co solvents in it along with oil. probably 2% BA and 10-20% BB and then a carrier oil. If you put hard to hold steroids in the same things it would crash.
So if you put hard to hold things like prop in and mix it- it might make it worse.

Yet if you put high mg enan in it and the EQ has more than enough BA/BB in it- it'll help.

I'm sorry i am not being more elaborate but I'm pressed for time today.

I'll give advice to help once you tell me what's in the blend.

 

[RedNeck]

its a Prop Phynelprop and E

the blend itself is FUcking badass I love what it has done in the past 3 weeks of running it. strength gains are insane right now, so the good by far out ways the knots by a long shot, so even if i cant lessen the blow i will still take it

 

[apollo]

its a Prop Phynelprop and E

the blend itself is FUcking badass I love what it has done in the past 3 weeks of running it. strength gains are insane right now, so the good by far out ways the knots by a long shot, so even if i cant lessen the blow i will still take it

Prop is hard to hold phenylprop is moderately hard and test E is easy as pie.

someone PM'd me about Test Phenyl prop being easy to hold and comparible to cypionate in length of half- life. I disagree. In fact I have been doing some internet searching and found a ton of half-life misinformation by so called experts and non experts and I assume part of this is bc in UGL's alot of times they will give cyp for enan and enan for cyp and say this is in there at this amount when it's really that or at a different amount. Paddock laboratories(American HG) Test Cyps' package insert states accurately that Cyp's half-life is 8 days.
Here's a good write up reinterating what i said already:
"Hormones that contain short esters on them (like acetate, propionate, phenylpropionate) have a much higher melting point and thus cannot be made as concentrated as those with longer esters (enanthate, decanoate, etc). Although testosterone propionate can be effectively made in standard amounts of solvents and oil to 100mg/ml without crashing out of this solution, once injected in the body, the solvents tend to leach out of the solution very quickly, being absorbed much quicker than the oil. This leaves behind oil and hormone in the muscle, and at the higher concentrations (which rely on solvents to not crash in solution) this will result in some of the hormone crashing out of solution to give crystals. These crystals cause significant muscular discomfort, and also can result in the recruitment of lymphocytes involved in inflammation thus the area around the crystals can get inflamed with a build up of blood cells. This takes time to dissipate and longer for the crystals to be absorbed into the body, which is why this type of pain and discomfort usually lasts for several days.
Read more at: A Guide to Post-Injection Muscular Pain

Now as without knowing what mgs of each- I cant say what will work it'd have to be adding enough oil and solvents to weaken the mgs/mL which defeats the purpose of having such a high mg product in the 1st place.
And I dont understand nor agree with these kind of mgs in 1ml when it can be substituted for 2mL's without the pain you are so willing to put up with. Buy a 5mL syringe if you're injecting alot of mL's no biggy. That blend - assuming it is what it says it is: test prop and phenyl prop which are very close in true half-lives (like a day) which means 12 hrs diference in peak levels and therefore shot intervals and Test Enan with a longer half life. The same results could be achieved with a lil extra mL or 2 if dosed a lil lower. And you take 500mgs-1,000mgs of test of any kind at the proper scheduling according to half-lives and you're gonna get great results man. At least you know it is highly dosed test though man so it's legit as far as that goes.
i'd have to know the mgs to advice you on what solvent and carrier you'd have to add to it through a syring filter to get it to be dosed lower and painless.
if you're tough enough to endure the pain you're tough enough to do a more voluminous shot or even an extra shot bro- so it aint worth the pain or possible problems as far as I'm concerned.