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Wealth Inequality in America

graniteman

graniteman

MuscleHead
Dec 31, 2011
6,133
1,556
Hoodlum, without sounding like a asshole, you really don't understand economics or systemss too well. When someone, anyone, a group or the gov't gets to decide who gets what and how much , that by definition is communisn. ''To each according to his needs'' In real life app it means equal misery for all, except the politburo. Capitalism at least gives the opportunity to rise out of your current class. No other systems offer that. Socialism\communism, all the other 'ism's' still consume goods. You'll still burn oil, cut trees down and burn electricity. I'll take a free market anydays, at least its up to me whether i fail or not.
 
tommyguns2

tommyguns2

Senior Moderators
Staff Member
Dec 25, 2010
6,339
5,068
The poverty line mentioned several times in the video and shown on the graph is completely arbitrary. Income disparity is meaningless. Instead, look at the standard of living of the poorest. The poor in the U.S. live a life today that only the Rockefellers and Vanderbilts lived 120 years ago. They have heat, running water, air conditioning, and they so much inexepensive food available to them they're obese. 25 years ago, only the top 1% had a mobile telephone, and today, I would bet that 75% of the poor have not just a mobile telephone, but a smartphone, that has the computing power of an IBM or Digital mini-computer in the year 1980.

The poor don't have wealtth because they live a destructive lifestyle. The rich are wealthy because they live a constructive lifestyle. That is why the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. The rich continue to make good decisions, while the poor continue to make bad decisions. The best way to decrease the total wealth is to subsidize the bad decisions and penalize the good decisions. That way you get more of the former, and less of the latter.

Try this thought experiment. Family #1 makes $30,000; Family #2 makes $100,000. Let's suppose a family " needs" $35,000 to make it. The income disparity is $70,000. Now, let's magically triple everyone's income. Family #1 now makes $90,000; Family #2 now makes $300,000. If a family "needs" $35,000 to make it, which case is better?

I bet family #1 would rather have $90,000. They don't care what somebody else is making, they've got more than before. But the author of the video would be extremely unhappy with this change, because now the income disparity is $210,000. The disparity has grown, but is that something we should really care about? Is the first situation "more fair?"

When I was a kid, nobody flew on an airplane, and nobody took a vacation to Cancun. Rather, we got into the back seat of the station wagon, and drove 500 miles to our uncle's house, while my brothers and I beat on each other in a car that had no A/C. When we got there, we ran around the backyard with our cousins for a week, while the parents drank beer and threw burgers on the grill.

Nobody had 10 pairs of shoes. I had one pair of play shoes, and one pair of church shoes. And when the sole wore out, we used shoe goo to patch the bottoms. I wasn't poor, I was middle class, and everybody I knew did exactly the same thing.

Our poor people now live a livestyle that was unheard of just as little as 30 years ago. A yet we lament our present state of affairs, and say how unfair it is. Sit down one afternoon with your grandparents, or an elderly neighbor and ask them what life was like in the 40s, 50s, and 60s. And really listen. You'll be shocked and amazed how tough life was, and that wasn't even the depression.

These videos really attempt to tweak the human tendancy to be jealous of those with more than we have. It's an implicit moral claim on the sweat of another man's brow, and to me it's disgustsing.
 
RageBlanket

RageBlanket

Senior Member
Feb 13, 2013
166
30
****ing GREAT post. ^^^^^^^^
 
hoodlum

hoodlum

MuscleHead
Jan 3, 2012
903
172
It might be me missing the point but I think where this has ended up is far off topic of the point

and granite, I want to address this directly, "decide who gets what and how much". I never said the video says someone should get 'y' and this should be decided by 'v' group, government or not. I don't believe that should be the case either so where is all that coming from? The only thing I said about a governing body was that I think taxes should be equal for all and people shouldn't be allowed to take advantage of loop holes to the detriment of others.
 
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MorganKane

MorganKane

VIP Member
Nov 12, 2012
1,730
1,016
I guess I am not an NFL quarterback since I dont have the connection nor do I want too.
Does this sound as dumb as I think it does?

Its very hard to find leadership. If you think you can lead at that level then you are just delusional.
No offense but you really are.

Labor is a dime a dozen, excellent leadership is very hard to find.
Sorry but its true and the market around the world confirms that.

My biggest problem with the tax code is all the exemptions that corporations get.
Facebook got a rebate of 437 million bucks while making a billion in profit.
We are giving the banks 85 billion or something in tax breaks and we do the same for the energy industry that is billions in profits.

We give a shot load of money to deadbeats who will not do shit for them self and we give a shit load of money to corporations.
Both must stop.
 
RageBlanket

RageBlanket

Senior Member
Feb 13, 2013
166
30
It might be me missing the point but I think where this has ended up is far off topic of the point

and granite, I want to address this directly, "decide who gets what and how much". I never said the video says someone should get 'y' and this should be decided by 'v' group, government or not. I don't believe that should be the case either so where is all that coming from? The only thing I said about a governing body was that I think taxes should be equal for all and people shouldn't be allowed to take advantage of loop holes to the detriment of others.

Here is where you're TOTALLY missing the point. How is an 8 figure earner paying 15% of that a DETRIMENT to anyone??

15% of 10,000,000 is still 1.5 million dollars. That's a huge chunk if cash regardless of the loopholes.

So a guy that makes 50k pays 25%, he contributes 12,500. Do you see the difference?

Add to that that the bottom 40% of earners contribute 2% of our tax income. You think there aren't loopholes for low income people?

I'll use your logic; I think it's GROSSLY unfair that someone not only pays ZERO taxes, but they MAKE money from the .gov on taxes. That's right, loopholes allow someone who doesn't pay any taxes to get a refund.

I have NO problem paying 10% more than a billionaire. I have infinite issue with people getting MY money back.
 
AndroSport

AndroSport

Senior Member
Jul 8, 2012
107
19
Yes I agree wholeheartedly, people need to earn what they have, there has been a big outroar in my country about 6 months about because there was talk about doing mandatory illicit drug testing for government welfare - I completely agree with this idea. If I'm subjected to ****ing drug tests at my work to earn the bloody money the ones not working should certainly be subjected to them and those who are on drugs shouldn't be getting a cent.

OK i agree with this statement^^^

So I'm not saying they should be distributing this money via the government but moreso an overhaul of how we are taxed and the pay rates of certain jobs (eg: are high paid executives really there because they deserve the position, do you think they are really doing 10x the work to justify 10x their pay? Sure maybe the rare couple are, but most are just along because they're good at being yes men climbing the ranks or they've got the connections, they certainly aren't doing 10x the work). The ones at the top are making the rules, and they're the ones pushing their own pay up

This one, not so much^^

The government has no ****ing business dictating pay rates of private sector jobs, PERIOD!

Yes, some of the executives are overpaid, but MOST (yes that means the majority) are not and most had to do 10x+ the work of others JUST TO GET THERE.

This is the country where your hard work is supposed to pay off. Big risk = big rewards OR big failures. Now they are taking the people who risked it all and saying they should give more of their money to the "poor".

If I hear one more person say "fair share" i will shit on their face. These "rich people" already pay the majority of the taxes. Comparing a "rich guy" who pays 30+% on a $10MM income to a "poor guy" who pays 20-25% of a $35k income and saying its not fair is ****ing ludicrous! The poor guy could pay 100% and the rich guy would still be paying 10x the taxes of the poor guy. Don't you dare say the rich guy doesn't need it... HE ****ING EARNED IT!!

If you think most CEO's got where they are because their daddy or brother is "so and so" then you are completely out of touch with what really goes on. The liberal shit heads would love to make the whole thing looks like an un-fair sham but people actually work hard... yes.

My father was a CEO of a large company.... which he built from the ground up and started out of a garage and a rented airplane hangar! Guess what his dad did??? NOT A CEO OR EXECUTIVE he delivered the ****ing mail after fighting in multiple wars for our freedom to earn money at an unlimited potential.

So am I a CEO just because my dad was? NO!!! In fact I have never taken a cent from him nor has he ever helped me get any kind of job. And I thank him for that regularly. He has simply supported any creative/hard working/entrepreneurial spirit that I had. I am doing fine on my own.

I will not be re-opening this thread. I need to sleep tonight.
 
tommyguns2

tommyguns2

Senior Moderators
Staff Member
Dec 25, 2010
6,339
5,068
The tax legislation passed on January 1 of this year phases out deductions for high wage earners. So that the loopholes that oeople talk about is a headscratcher to me.

Coroporate tax loopholes.... Now we're talking. Corporate tax reform, RIGHT NOW, but Democrats don't want that. Obama handed out ovre $50 billion dollars in special tax loopholes in the last tax deal of January 1. He's part of the problem. Tax breaks for hollywood and green energy.

Corporations do not pay taxes!!!! They pass costs (whatever those costs are, including taxes) on to the consumer in the form of highre prices. Corporate taxes are the worst kind of taxes, because they're a hidden tax on the consumer. That's why the gov't loves them. They collect revenue, and those actually paying for it have no idea. Same with a VAT tax. Extremely danagerous.

A flat tax is beautiful simply by the way it takes all the knobs and levers away from the gov't. It strips the gov't of its power to encourage or discourage whatever behavior is presently out of favor. Perfect example is the electric cars. Now the gov't loves them. Wait for 20 years when landfills are filled with the toxic heavy metals of all these batteries, and we castigate all those evil corporate greed people who simply did what the gov't encourged them to do. I bet the tral lawyers can't wait to start filing class action lawsuits....
 
hoodlum

hoodlum

MuscleHead
Jan 3, 2012
903
172
Edited to be much much politer

Kane: don't go judging people before you know them. Just because you don't believe in yourself doesn't mean others can't achieve what you can't.
 
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Mr.Sinister

Mr.Sinister

Member
Feb 28, 2012
54
3
There's NO socialism in America!!!
Social Security, Medicare, etc...lol

Sorry, there's a lot I would like to say but conservatives (were you a conservative during Bush II) would get mad, liberals (that would have been called moderate republicans in the past) would get mad, gun control advocates would get mad, etc. lol
 
D

Dsly

Member
Dec 5, 2012
44
2
The video is just stating the statistics. It's when we start reading into what the nature of the problem is and what the solution might be, that's when we start getting into trouble.
I find the statistics troubling. It's a shame that middle class wages have been stagnant or even going down. I know that my expenses have more than doubled in the last 10 years and I make less now as an Automotive Engineer than I did 10 years ago doing the same thing with much fewer responsibilities. That video is probably counting Net Worth, not income. If that's the case, I'm at close to zero. If I sold everything I would probably have a few bucks left after I paid my debt. 10 years ago, I had a 401K and equity in my house, etc. That has all been wiped away by the "downturn" in the economy.

However, I don't think it is any business of the government to regulate or even meddle in the distribution of wealth. Most of the time, when people are poor in America, it's for a reason. If you gave them a million dollars, they would be broke again in no time at all. Sometimes there are circumstances beyond people's control but I find that's the exception.
 
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