The HCG Debate

[zackrock]

I was explaining to a friend that I feel that when a person is on and extended cycle (14 weeks or longer) they should consider hcg during cycle. He says he will be just fine running it post cycle. Here is the cycle in question:

d-bol 50mg/ed wks 1-6
deca 400mg/ew wks 1-12
Test-cyp 500mg/ew wks 1-14
Proviron 50mg/ed wks 1-20
tren-ace 100mg/eod wks 15-20
winny 50mg/ed wks 15-20
Test-prop 100mg/eod wks 18-20
Clen wks 11-20
Aromasin 20mg/ed wks 1-20

I suggested he also run hcg @ 250mg/eod wks 1-20 (and of course a heavy duty PCT)!

What is your opinion? Do you think with a cycle like this one should just run hcg post cycle or do you think it should be included throuout the cycle?

 

[Rein]

I was explaining to a friend that I feel that when a person is on and extended cycle (14 weeks or longer) they should consider hcg during cycle. He says he will be just fine running it post cycle. Here is the cycle in question:

d-bol 50mg/ed wks 1-6
deca 400mg/ew wks 1-12
Test-cyp 500mg/ew wks 1-14
Proviron 50mg/ed wks 1-20
tren-ace 100mg/eod wks 15-20
winny 50mg/ed wks 15-20
Test-prop 100mg/eod wks 18-20
Clen wks 11-20
Aromasin 20mg/ed wks 1-20

I suggested he also run hcg @ 250mg/eod wks 1-20 (and of course a heavy duty PCT)!

What is your opinion? Do you think with a cycle like this one should just run hcg post cycle or do you think it should be included throuout the cycle?

Why does he want to do such a cycle? This cycle could have been planned better IMO.

HCG at 250iu eod from the first week is too much. He should run it from the 3rd week and after at 250-300iu e4d.

Aromasin at 20mgs is quite a dosage. Try starting out with 12,5mgs eod and increase the dosage if you can't handle the side effects.

Personally, i don't agree with running a cutter after such a bulking cycle and i certainly don't agree with tren and deca in the same cycle.

 

[MAYO]

Leydigs desensitize to supraphysiological HCG at around 6wks...IMO running HCG intermittently is ok, but running steadily for more than a 6 week period will just make PCT more difficult for the body. My 2c.

 

[Get Some]

Leydigs desensitize to supraphysiological HCG at around 6wks...IMO running HCG intermittently is ok, but running steadily for more than a 6 week period will just make PCT more difficult for the body. My 2c.

Agreed, but it would be interesting to determine a point of "saturation" so to speak. Could one use 250iu E5D for a period of longer thn 6 week and not become desensitized? My logical thinking would tell me yes, but I don't know for sure. I usually just tell people to start with 250iu twice a week in the 3rd week of their cycle. If they are not experiencing atrophy, they can cut back the dosage. The real "work" that HCG is good for is the period inbetween your last pin and PCT. For purely short ester cycles this would be during the entire last week of pinning. I truely believe that will help kickstart the HPTA, especially in a heavily suppressive cycle like the one above.

So, to recap.... "while on cycle Nolva is whack, use HCG to fill your sack. Then when you're about to crack, slam it to get that HPTA back"

 

[Deacon]

all good points - I know what I have done and what currently works for my age and experience - I have run HCG during cycle at low doses of around 250-500 ius every 3rd day or so or even twice a week and I have run it (more often) after the cyle prior to PCT

for me the only way is after cycle as I saw no benefit to running it during cycle even for 24 week cycles - currently I run 2500 ius every thrid day for several weeks prior to PCT - I know this is a more radical approach but when you run tren as often as I do it seems to work best for me this way

there have been article written about running it to long though and I think this is what happens when you run it udring the cycle - as mentioned above if you run it during your cycle for short durations this may be the best idea if you go that way

 

[Deacon]

Why does he want to do such a cycle? This cycle could have been planned better IMO.

HCG at 250iu eod from the first week is too much. He should run it from the 3rd week and after at 250-300iu e4d.

Aromasin at 20mgs is quite a dosage. Try starting out with 12,5mgs eod and increase the dosage if you can't handle the side effects.

I have to agree with your point on the aromasin way to much - also I dont like his cycle choices either - tren and deca I run together sometimes with no bad effects but recovery is a real bitch and this is best run by vets in cycling and I would not add clen or winnie in the cycle either since provi and tren a will harden him up enough - the whole thing is way overdone IMO

 

[bigrobbie]

I don`t think its as simple as presented. I use hCG usually half way thru cycle, then again the first 2 weeks of my pct. It really all depends on cycle length and if u care or not about testicular atrophy...

 

[SHINE]

Don't forget the testes also produce pregnenolone and a bit of proges , one being a important nuro steroid and the other helpful for artery health. (for your long term health)

about 250-300 iu every 3 days mimics the bodies own LH curve and keeps intratesticular test levels normal of course in helathy men.
At that dose aromatase expresion is not a problem as well as leydig cell desensitzation.


Reason I now choose to keep using low dose hcg throughout cycles.

 

[Mr. Wiggly]

I used HCG on my last cycle for the first time and I will never do a cycle without it again. I used to get away with big long cycles and have no testicular issues too. All of a sudden one cycle that changed. Then I was atrophied for 2 years and it sucked. I pulled my self out of it with the hcg and then a big ass clomid treatment. Things are ok again but I would always recommend hcg if you can get it. There is no reason not to.

 

[crowman]

I love HCG and agree it should never be skipped. You just feel so much better when using it anyways.

 

[Bionixx]

I agree with Crowman and at my age 43yr I need it when using cycles. I just ordered 10-5000iu/vial's. Watchout you allwill be popping babies out!!!!

 

[stpete]

Short esters 8-10 weeks i start HCG from day one.

Long esters 12-16 weeks start HCG week 3.

All the way to PCT.