Some insight please....

[69nites]

Why use gear to cut? 50 mg of var ain't gonna do shit, it's a weak ass compound, what I'd do is cut up use a Palumbo style diet than rock a test only cycle or if he already has the var stack them. Nice lean ass gains. and I'm with the det oak, ALL ORAL only cycles are a waste... Unless ur a chick doing a var only cycle. and it's up to chitown to make the decision but I'm 99 percent sure that a var only cycle is going to be a flop, I've done 2 oral only cycles and they where trash by comparison to my first inject cycle.

You ever done a var only cycle?

I had as big of strength increases in a calorie deficit in 8 weeks on 75mg of var as 10 weeks of test e on a bulk. If your goal is mass its not the greatest. Muscle retention during a cut and huge strength increases are where it shines.

 

[neocon1]

I've run var, and it's a weak compound. I'm saying if his goal is muscle retention 400 mg test e is greater than 50 mg var Ed. I've never run it alone and I never will. it's a STUPID idea. Test should be in all cycles, and I would not say big stregth gains. He'd get modest at best. bro im sure most guys here would agree. don't runa var only cycle. Rock ur cutter as a natty, don't worry unless ur on t3 ur muscles gonna be fine, just eat well keep fats modestly high and protein high, lowish carbs and make ur cardio low and slow, for duration. No high intensity stuff and when u shred start ur first real cycle. trust me. and var won't do much for body fat loss. Hit up man power they have pre made eca stacks. Cheap as dirt. One cap when u wake up and 1 cap pre workout or say 2 pm and u will shred.

 

[69nites]

I've run var, and it's a weak compound. I'm saying if his goal is muscle retention 400 mg test e is greater than 50 mg var Ed. I've never run it alone and I never will. it's a STUPID idea. Test should be in all cycles, and I would not say big stregth gains. He'd get modest at best. bro im sure most guys here would agree. don't runa var only cycle. Rock ur cutter as a natty, don't worry unless ur on t3 ur muscles gonna be fine, just eat well keep fats modestly high and protein high, lowish carbs and make ur cardio low and slow, for duration. No high intensity stuff and when u shred start ur first real cycle. trust me. and var won't do much for body fat loss. Hit up man power they have pre made eca stacks. Cheap as dirt. One cap when u wake up and 1 cap pre workout or say 2 pm and u will shred.

If you saw my post you would see that I said I assumed he would be running t3.

There's a pretty large group here that believe the test in all cycles thing is garbage and very closed minded.

The estrogen response from the test is counterproductive to his goals. A var cycle is more simple and better suited for his goals.

 

[neocon1]

Ok. If he's using t3 an anabolic is defiantly benifital and I agree test doesn't need to be in all cycles but unless u have a very very specific goal test even a hrt dose is going to be beneficial. and if u want to pull the estro card, its not going to hinder his fat loss, he may have a tad of a bloarpt, but that's easily combated with 10 mg aromasin Ed or .5 mg adex Ed. but I really really don't see that being an issue. Also test does not hinder fat loss, even a bloat doesn't, the only anabolic I can think of that hurts fat loss is drol, and even than if diets in check I'm sure cutting is a breeze, can I ask what ur diet looks like op, how many meals and a macro count is fine. and I know I'm beating this dead horse but var only is a crap cycle. what a fuckin waste, shutting itself down for minimal gains. I say this with pure certainty. rock a 10 week cycle of test 400 and in 16 weeks u will look better than u would of rocking ur 50 mg's of var. and I say this with 100 percent certainty.

 

[SAD]

I've run var, and it's a weak compound. I'm saying if his goal is muscle retention 400 mg test e is greater than 50 mg var Ed. I've never run it alone and I never will. it's a STUPID idea. Test should be in all cycles, and I would not say big stregth gains. He'd get modest at best. bro im sure most guys here would agree. don't runa var only cycle.

Ok. If he's using t3 an anabolic is defiantly benifital and I agree test doesn't need to be in all cycles but unless u have a very very specific goal test even a hrt dose is going to be beneficial. and if u want to pull the estro card, its not going to hinder his fat loss, he may have a tad of a bloarpt, but that's easily combated with 10 mg aromasin Ed or .5 mg adex Ed. but I really really don't see that being an issue. Also test does not hinder fat loss, even a bloat doesn't, the only anabolic I can think of that hurts fat loss is drol, and even than if diets in check I'm sure cutting is a breeze, can I ask what ur diet looks like op, how many meals and a macro count is fine. and I know I'm beating this dead horse but var only is a crap cycle. what a fuckin waste, shutting itself down for minimal gains. I say this with pure certainty. rock a 10 week cycle of test 400 and in 16 weeks u will look better than u would of rocking ur 50 mg's of var. and I say this with 100 percent certainty.

I used to think oral only cycles were a waste, and test should be run in all cycles, but that's just endlessly regurgitated and perpetuated bro-lore. I get GREAT strength gains off of var and on a cutter when I'd normally be losing some strength, that's an invaluable benefit. Var is far from weak, but you have to know what to expect.

Dude, I hate to nitpick, but fair warning, I'm about to go through that second quote with a fine-toothed comb.

1.) Let's skip right over the bolded contradiction of your statement that test needs to be in all cycles and get to the point where you claim that estrogen doesn't hinder fat loss. There is a strong correlation between high estrogen and high bodyfat. Google will be your friend on this point.

2.) Did you just basically equate 10mg Aromasin ED with .5mg Adex ED? There's a substantial difference in the amount of estrogen that will be limited by the differing doses, not to mention how differently they work (and why I believe that for maintenance, Aromasin is superior, but that's an aside).

3.) Drol does not hinder fat loss, lol. The only mechanism by which anadrol may make a cutter more difficult is one that you refuted just a few sentences before, by increasing estrogen through aromatization. But with an appropriate dose of aromasin, estrogen would be controlled and any AAS could be used for cutting.

4.) You claim again that var only is a waste and that it is shutting down the HPTA for minimal gains. But the OP is not looking for gains, he is looking for retention while cutting. Again, this also completely overlooks the FACT that 8 weeks of var will be much less suppressive than 8 weeks of test, promoting a faster recovery.

5.) Using absolutes, like "100% certainty", and "always", and "pure certainty" are almost always guaranteed to make you look foolish and close-minded. Your saving grace is that I think you intend well and you're like 21 or something right? That gives you a pass, but you have to break out of the mindset that you know so much. None of us really know shit, which is why we come to these boards to grow, research, learn, discuss, and possibly help.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

If you saw my post you would see that I said I assumed he would be running t3.

There's a pretty large group here that believe the test in all cycles thing is garbage and very closed minded.

The estrogen response from the test is counterproductive to his goals. A var cycle is more simple and better suited for his goals.

test in all cycles is garbage?

you do realize that having low testosterone leaves you with very low HDL right?

you also realize that anavar is one of the worst orals, next to winny, for your cholesterol right?

estrogen is counter productive to his goals? ever heard of an AI?

im sorry but your backing of a var only cycle is about the stupiest reasoning ive ever seen, now were picking compounds for goals?

var only cycle? peh, ive seen 100's try, not one likes it. have you ever done a var only cycle?

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

op says he doesnt want to gain a lot of weight, on my first test only cycle (cutter) i gained 2lbs and pissed out 8 during PCT.

you can cut very well on testosterone, hell ive ran a nice cut on deca, test only for a first cycle is WAAAAAAY better than a var only, and i say this with an open mind.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

I used to think oral only cycles were a waste, and test should be run in all cycles, but that's just endlessly regurgitated and perpetuated bro-lore. I get GREAT strength gains off of var and on a cutter when I'd normally be losing some strength, that's an invaluable benefit. Var is far from weak, but you have to know what to expect.

Dude, I hate to nitpick, but fair warning, I'm about to go through that second quote with a fine-toothed comb.

1.) Let's skip right over the bolded contradiction of your statement that test needs to be in all cycles and get to the point where you claim that estrogen doesn't hinder fat loss. There is a strong correlation between high estrogen and high bodyfat. Google will be your friend on this point.

2.) Did you just basically equate 10mg Aromasin ED with .5mg Adex ED? There's a substantial difference in the amount of estrogen that will be limited by the differing doses, not to mention how differently they work (and why I believe that for maintenance, Aromasin is superior, but that's an aside).

3.) Drol does not hinder fat loss, lol. The only mechanism by which anadrol may make a cutter more difficult is one that you refuted just a few sentences before, by increasing estrogen through aromatization. But with an appropriate dose of aromasin, estrogen would be controlled and any AAS could be used for cutting.

4.) You claim again that var only is a waste and that it is shutting down the HPTA for minimal gains. But the OP is not looking for gains, he is looking for retention while cutting. Again, this also completely overlooks the FACT that 8 weeks of var will be much less suppressive than 8 weeks of test, promoting a faster recovery.

5.) Using absolutes, like "100% certainty", and "always", and "pure certainty" are almost always guaranteed to make you look foolish and close-minded. Your saving grace is that I think you intend well and you're like 21 or something right? That gives you a pass, but you have to break out of the mindset that you know so much. None of us really know shit, which is why we come to these boards to grow, research, learn, discuss, and possibly help.

dude we always agree, normally, but now were saying var only is a better cutter than test only? and recovery from var is eaier than test only? i strongly disagree with both statements, his cholesterol will take much lnger to recover from var only than test only.

you said yourself, were not using AAS to gain muscle in this situation. I understand your point in estrogen, but with AI's tha takes your argument away from you.

so since we are not using these compounds to gain when cutting, only for muscle restention. why and the hell would you take var? test is better at nitrogen retention, and test is better at preserving muscle mass. on a caloric deficit you will not "gain" weight on test, that i can assure you of.

var only is a waste of time and money.

im sorry bro test is no more suppressive than var.

 

[THE-DET-OAK]

oh and i forgot a about this. when a tren user does tren alone his cycle is usually great with dry steamy gains, so why not do it like that all the time?

here is why, when you cycle without test you are allowing your body to not only shut down test production, but also to shut down DHT conversion. this is why people who run tren only cycle's have a hard on while on (cause the tren smashes though and hits the DHT receptors) but cant get an erection after the cycle.

this process takes a while to com back around. and honestly may never com bacl with a harsh cycle, this is why some men on TRT have to rub androgel on their balls, to inc4rease DHT conversion.

running a var only cycle will do the same thing just not to the same extent. so now instead of just waiting for your bals to come back online you also have to wait for DHT to kick back in. if you dont think var only inhibits recovery, then there are some things i need to teach you brother.

the solution to all this is to at least run a maintanenance dose of test. like 200mg a week, even with tren and deca, im all for cycles like that, but to use no test at all, does not make bro science or scientific sense

i rarely run test higher than 300mg anymore, because of these things like water retention that your pointing out, but to have none at all just doesnt make any sense, there is NO argument for it whatsoever.

if your a soldeir stuck in Iraq, or some other circumstance that truly allows you to be limited to what you can get, then i say cycle what you have, other than that, people who done run at least maintenance dose of test, should stick to creatine and protein.

 

[69nites]

That's one of those arguments that only people with no var only experience make. After 8 weeks of var my sex drive has barely suffered. During pct it's higher than pre-cycle and after pct it doesn't seem to take any time to come back.
This is my experience. But everyone I've talked to who has actually done it has had similar experience.

Sometimes the theory of the way it should turn out based on conventional thinking isn't the way things add up in reality.

 

[marx]

Simple question: How will the var be run? 50mg once a day? split throughout day?

 

[ritch]

I've actually read var being mildly suppressive, seen studies on this as well.