Orals. One big dose or spread it out?

[Jada]

Nice reading postsssss.

 

[Jada]

lol, but in all seriousness, any way you decide to take orals could work out perfectly or at least decently. It's when you decide to give oral that things become sketchy

wtf lmfao bahaha

 

[SAD]

This is a throwback. Just finished reading all of this again, and I'm happy to say that I still believe I'm right and have proven it (to myself at least) with my results over the last 3 years. I spread orals out on non-workout days, and load up pre-workout on workout days.

And this thread also goes to show that we can be too judgmental of noobs. I was a noob when I started this thread, and was basically told to "not question and just listen". If you go back and read it now that it looks like a conversation between two VIPs, it sure reads differently than it used to. I'll definitely take this lesson to heart.

Now it's time to go slam 80mg of var and 20mg of halo and squat 635 for a few sets.

 

[DF]

I was going to shoot you a PM after reading this thread SAD. Thanks for coming back & giving feed back into your theory. I found this thread very informative & interesting.

 

[dr jim]

The most effective means of ensuring a particular substance is effective is the maintainence of Steady State levels.

The most reliable means of ensuring steady state levels are maintained?

Dose the medication at an interval which does NOT exceed it's half life.

Ergo whether a benefit is achieved by altering the dosing interval while simultaneously increasing the dosage is certainly possible providing the concentration does NOT fall below what is known as the Steady State therapeutic level.

However essentially all enzymatic systems will change from first to zero order kinetics as the substrate concentration is increased.

What does that mean? Once a particular level is reached the responsible enzymatic process becomes SATURATED and NO further increase of substrate will occur.

The net effect of the latter is that "extra" AAS which is just sitting around waiting for the enzymatic train to offload some passengers, it's likely to be CATABOLIZED and eliminated!

So there os a point of diminishing returns for an AAS.

Best
JIM

 

[graniteman]

The most effective means of ensuring a particular substance is effective is the maintainence of Steady State levels.

The most reliable means of ensuring steady state levels are maintained?

Dose the medication at an interval which does NOT exceed it's half life.

Ergo whether a benefit is achieved by altering the dosing interval while simultaneously increasing the dosage is certainly possible providing the concentration does NOT fall below what is known as the Steady State therapeutic level.

However essentially all enzymatic systems will change from first to zero order kinetics as the substrate concentration is increased.

What does that mean? Once a particular level is reached the responsible enzymatic process becomes SATURATED and NO further increase of substrate will occur.

The net effect of the latter is that "extra" AAS which is just sitting around waiting for the enzymatic train to offload some passengers, it's likely to be CATABOLIZED and eliminated!

So there os a point of diminishing returns for an AAS.

Best
JIM

Would this be on the lines of say too much Vit C? The excess is just waste and eliminated

 

[dr jim]

I took it at face value, and thought it was an interesting way to end a thread that taught me quite a bit, and I hope some others got something out of it too. On a forum designed to teach, learn, and share, it shouldn't be an issue if somebody asks questions in order to learn from people who can teach and share. If I came off as bantering and bickering rather than inquisitive and curious, I apologize and you misinterpreted. But if the issue is that I ask too many questions, questions that I believe the answers for are not easily found, then I'm stumped as to how to go about participating on this forum. I'm not saying that I'm done with TID, I'm saying that I am legitimately at a loss.

By the way, I think the follow up by AllTheWay described how others probably took your post.

Excellent point, and an issue with every forum IME.

Respects
jim

 

[dr jim]

would this be on the lines of say too much vit c? The excess is just waste and eliminated

Exactly on spot primarily because Vitamin C is water soluble. Compare that to fat soluble (ADEK) vitamins which can "hide" in fatty tissue (not necessarily adipose tissue per say) avoiding elimination until the fatty tissue is saturated.

Since there are MANY other structures besides FAT that dislikes the presence of those vitamins, esp nervous tissue, TOXICITY MAY OCCUR. Now is it so surprising that "nervous system" signs and symptoms are a frequent manifestation of fat soluble vitamin TOXICITY!

Regs mate
jim

 

[SAD]

The most effective means of ensuring a particular substance is effective is the maintainence of Steady State levels.

The most reliable means of ensuring steady state levels are maintained?

Dose the medication at an interval which does NOT exceed it's half life.

Ergo whether a benefit is achieved by altering the dosing interval while simultaneously increasing the dosage is certainly possible providing the concentration does NOT fall below what is known as the Steady State therapeutic level.

However essentially all enzymatic systems will change from first to zero order kinetics as the substrate concentration is increased.

What does that mean? Once a particular level is reached the responsible enzymatic process becomes SATURATED and NO further increase of substrate will occur.

The net effect of the latter is that "extra" AAS which is just sitting around waiting for the enzymatic train to offload some passengers, it's likely to be CATABOLIZED and eliminated!

So there os a point of diminishing returns for an AAS.

Best
JIM

Science is cool, but I'd never take halo at 2.5mg every 4 hours if I wanted to rage on the platform. The same goes for guys who love suspension preworkout. If the point is to reach your arbitrary saturation point and stay there throughout the workout, then taking a little tiny amount every half-life-minus-x-amount-of-time doesn't really achieve that effect.

I don't know if you read through the whole thread, but I use my injectables to keep a steady supply of AAS, and my orals to peak during workouts. Again, I'm all about science, but sometimes it's just words that sound fancy, and some big meathead ignores them and is more successful because of it.

 

[dr jim]

Science is cool, but I'd never take halo at 2.5mg every 4 hours if I wanted to rage on the platform. The same goes for guys who love suspension preworkout. If the point is to reach your arbitrary saturation point and stay there throughout the workout, then taking a little tiny amount every half-life-minus-x-amount-of-time doesn't really achieve that effect.

I don't know if you read through the whole thread, but I use my injectables to keep a steady supply of AAS, and my orals to peak during workouts. Again, I'm all about science, but sometimes it's just words that sound fancy, and some big meathead ignores them and is more successful because of it.

I read your original post which clarified what your intentions were from my perspective. I'm just trying to emphasize steady state levels should be maintained within the therapeutic range to optimize the benefits of ANY drug used.

But your approach is also noteworthy and most useful for those needing that extra amp during a WO (been there done that.)

Obviously those AAS most likely to be useful in the latter situation include essentially all Orals and T-s because their short life and onset of action are very short.

Lastly some lifters are unable to tolerate the higher sides associated generally observed with daily blast dosing, but if it works for you, that's good enough for me mate

 

[Torres]

Me , personally dose an oral throughout the day !!!
I'm actually taking 40mgs of Dbol on workout days and I space it throughout the day . It seems to work fine for me .
i also find that the strength and pump I get are great when I hit the gym , but I also take a preworkout drink and on ocassion pin some TNE preworkout as well !!!
Idk about the " All at once " scenario . But hey if it works well for u , keep it goin !!! Great post !!!

 

[ketsugo]

Personal preference I just take preworkout . If you are cycling there is Always something circulating in the blood as we all take more than one compound ( typicLly )