Modern raw versus modern classic

[Turbolag]

Has anyone used the knee sleeves?

Do they provide any spring at the bottom and support ?

 

[69nites]

It's different depending on the federation, Forklift.
APF doesn't use wraps for raw but UPA does and RPS offers both.

To me though, raw is going back to the roots of the sport - when lifters did use wraps. The idea of no wraps came later as RAW branched off from the rest of lifting in response to the gear getting more extreme.
What I posted is just my opinion and not based on any fact, whatsoever.

Personally I think of raw as not using anything for a mechanical advantage. I would think knee wraps would be out based on that.

 

[Superman]

IMO, wraps, belts, sleeves all are "gear" and I do not see them as raw.

 

[BrotherIron]

... because what this sport needs is more ways to split records up so that everyone feels special. It's good to see choices being given to lifters but this is getting ridiculous.

raw = wraps and a belt
geared = wear what you want

Allow a monolift for both and judge them all the same. It's not that complicated.

I agree with this and I'll take it one further. There should be ONLY 2 Feds; Tested and Untested.

 

[BrotherIron]

Has anyone used the knee sleeves?

Do they provide any spring at the bottom and support ?

I train with sleeves and wraps. I've used neoprene, single ply, and double ply at some point and time. The neoprene help with support but do not give any "help" in performing the lift. The single ply give more support than the neoprene and may help a little but it's marginal. The double ply sleeve gives alot of support (feet will fall asleep if left on) and I do believe aid in performing the lift quite a bit. They're also very difficult to put on.

 

[porky little keg]

Personally I think of raw as not using anything for a mechanical advantage. I would think knee wraps would be out based on that.

I agree with that, they definitely do help. But the whole idea of a raw division is to give more of an even field where someone like me who really knows gear can't get 300# out of a shirt and blow by a stronger lifter who hasn't figured it out. Knee wraps are knee wraps and do add a lot of safety to the lift, same with the mono lift and belt. Besides, there was never a time where people didn't wrap knees in competition if you look back through the infancy of our sport. If you want to go back to truly a brute test of strength why not get rid of squat racks all together and get the bar on your back the way the old school guys did - by standing it on end and levering it on to their back. How far should we take it before it gets ridiculous?


I gotta ask though, and I don't mean this to call you out on anything, your opinion is just as valid as mine - I'm just curious.
Most of the guys who talk about how belts really aren't raw etc... are gym rats who train this way but have never really competed, let alone done any big meets. Have you competed? At what level? How about you, Superman?
Your opinion is a popular one, and I agree that a belt and wraps provide an advantage over not for most people ( definitely not all) but most of the competitors I know just want an even field.
Again, I really am just curious, please know that I am not trying to insult you or your opinion in any way.

 

[69nites]

I agree with that, they definitely do help. But the whole idea of a raw division is to give more of an even field where someone like me who really knows gear can't get 300# out of a shirt and blow by a stronger lifter who hasn't figured it out. Knee wraps are knee wraps and do add a lot of safety to the lift, same with the mono lift and belt. Besides, there was never a time where people didn't wrap knees in competition if you look back through the infancy of our sport. If you want to go back to truly a brute test of strength why not get rid of squat racks all together and get the bar on your back the way the old school guys did - by standing it on end and levering it on to their back. How far should we take it before it gets ridiculous?


I gotta ask though, and I don't mean this to call you out on anything, your opinion is just as valid as mine - I'm just curious.
Most of the guys who talk about how belts really aren't raw etc... are gym rats who train this way but have never really competed, let alone done any big meets. Have you competed? At what level? How about you, Superman?
Your opinion is a popular one, and I agree that a belt and wraps provide an advantage over not for most people ( definitely not all) but most of the competitors I know just want an even field.
Again, I really am just curious, please know that I am not trying to insult you or your opinion in any way.

I only really lift big weights for enjoyment. I'm a boxer. I'll pull touch and go sets around 405 with no chalk. I dislike when someone with good knee wraps and a belt tries to talk down to me like that equipment doesn't help them.

When I say raw I mean I lift it with no help. Chalk up if I have really sweaty hands but that is about it.

I generally don't talk numbers on the boards just throwing it out there to give perspective.

I'm not opposed to belts and knee straps for other people at all. Just when I hear raw I think walk in and pick that shit up. No equipment. If it's defined that way for competition purposes that's fine by me.

 

[porky little keg]

I only really lift big weights for enjoyment. I'm a boxer. I'll pull touch and go sets around 405 with no chalk. I dislike when someone with good knee wraps and a belt tries to talk down to me like that equipment doesn't help them.

When I say raw I mean I lift it with no help. Chalk up if I have really sweaty hands but that is about it.

I generally don't talk numbers on the boards just throwing it out there to give perspective.

I'm not opposed to belts and knee straps for other people at all. Just when I hear raw I think walk in and pick that shit up. No equipment. If it's defined that way for competition purposes that's fine by me.

Cool thanks. Yea, that opinion seems to be most common in guys who lift but aren't powerlifters. And I agree that it's bull when people try to compare apples to oranges.
I train to compete in gear but when I do raw work it's usually without a belt or wraps because I'm trying to build strength not just move weight and it definitely takes more strength to move the same weight without a belt or wraps. But, for the sake of competition where your only goal is to hit a big number I'm all about the extra safety of simple wraps and a belt. That's the part people don't get - the average lifter SHOULDN'T compare their numbers to a competitive powerlifter. You're trying to get stronger for boxing so your lifting is all geared towards that - in the ring nobody cares how much you squat as long as you fight well. In my sport I just want to move the most weight possible. I don't care if I can see abs ( but I try not to look like a slob) and I don't give a fart if I can run a mile - my 40m time won't get any more lbs tacked on to my total either..... why the need to compare?