letro for 13 yr old gyno???

[uphillclimb]

Can someone tell me what his prior screen name was?

Surgery is the only way bud. Letro like said above is real taxing.....and it won't eliminate, just minimize.

 

[Docd187123]

What would be a correct dosage for Ralaxofine?

Dosing for raloxifene would be 60mg daily for 10days up to 2wks. After that run it for 30mg daily until it reverses. It could take months so be patient. If you have BMD or osteoperosis issues you could supplement with calcium and vitamin D3 to help preserve bone density.

Can someone tell me what his prior screen name was?

Surgery is the only way bud. Letro like said above is real taxing.....and it won't eliminate, just minimize.

Raloxifene and tamoxifen are excellent choices if one doesn't want to undergo an invasive process such as surgery.

 

[uphillclimb]

Raloxifene and tamoxifen are excellent choices if one doesn't want to undergo an invasive process such as surgery.

Never had to go this route.....have you found that it eliminated it altogether? I haven't heard that yet....

 

[Docd187123]

Never had to go this route.....have you found that it eliminated it altogether? I haven't heard that yet....

I personally have never had gyno but SERMs have been shown to reduce the mass a great deal. Most patients have had greater than 50% reduction in tissue size with a good deal having complete reversal. The effectiveness will obviously vary but IMO the amount of money spent on SERM's to treat this and the efficacy rate lead it to be a viable option as well as the treatment being extremely well tolerated. Surgery, for those who want to avoid it for whatever reason, doesn't need to be the first treatment option but it is an effective on nonetheless. Another thing to consider would be that changing hormonal levels as we do here can always bring gyno back. Doesn't mean that it will come back on a cycle if estradiol and progesterone are managed properly but it is a possibility, even with the surgery.

Here are some references if you'd like to read them over:

Treatment of gynecomastia with tamoxifen: a double-blind crossover study.

AuthorsParker LN, et al. Show all Journal
Metabolism. 1986 Aug;35(8):705-8.
Affiliation
Abstract
Benign asymptomatic or painful enlargement of the male breast is a common problem, postulated to be due to an increased estrogen/testosterone ration or due to increased estrogenic or decreased androgenic stimulation via estrogen or androgen receptor interactions. Treatment at present consists of analgesic medication or surgery. However, treatment directed against the preponderance of estrogenic stimulation would seem to represent a more specific form of therapy. In the present double-blind crossover study, one-month courses of a placebo or the antiestrogen tamoxifen (10 mg given orally bid) were compared in random order. Seven of ten patients experienced a decrease in the size of their gynecomastia due to tamoxifen (P less than 0.005). Overall, the decrease for gynecomastia for the whole group was significant (P less than 0.01). There was no beneficial effect of placebo (P greater than 0.1). Additionally, all four patients with painful gynecomastia experienced symptomatic relief. There was no toxicity. The reduction of breast size was partial and may indicate the need for a longer course of therapy. A followup examination was performed in eight out of ten patients nine months to one year after discontinuing placebo and tamoxifen. There were no significant changes from the end of the initial study period except for one tamoxifen responder who developed a recurrence of breast tenderness after six months, and one nonresponder who demonstrated an increase in breast size and a new onset of tenderness after ten months. Therefore, antiestrogenic treatment with tamoxifen may represent a safe and effective mode of treatment for selected cases of cosmetically disturbing or painful gynecomastia.

PMID 3526085 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/3526085/

[Influence of size and duration of gynecomastia on its response to treatment with tamoxifen].

AuthorsDevoto C E, et al. Show all Journal
Rev Med Chil. 2007 Dec;135(12):1558-65. doi: /S0034-98872007001200009. Epub 2008 Feb 13. Article in Spanish.
Affiliation
Sección Endocrinología, Servicio de Medicina, Hospital Clínico San Borja Arriarán, Santiago, Chile. [email protected]
Abstract
BACKGROUND: Gynecomastia is treated when it is painful, there are psychosocial repercussions or it does not revert in less than two years. It is treated with the antiestrogenic drug tamoxifen, but there are doubts about its effectiveness in high volume gynecomastias or in those lasting more than two years.

AIM: To assess the effectiveness and safety of tamoxifen for gynecomastia and the influence of its volume and duration on the response to treatment.

PATIENTS AND METHODS: Forty three patients with gynecomastia, aged 12 to 62 years, were studied. Twenty seven patients had a pubertal physiological gynecomastia, in eight it was caused by medications, in four it was secondary to hypogonadism, in three it was idiopathic and in one it was due to toxic exposure. Twenty patients had mastodynia and in 33, gynecomastia had a diameter over 4 cm. It lasted less than two years in 30 patients, more than two years in nine and four did not recall its duration. All were treated with tamoxifen 20 mg/day for 6 months. A follow up evaluation was performed at three and six months of treatment.

RESULTS: Mastodynia disappeared in all patients at three months. At six months gynecomastia disappeared in 26 patients (62%), but relapsed in 27%. All gynecomastias caused by drugs with antiandrogen activity disappeared. Fifty two percent of gynecomastias over 4 cm and 90% of those of less than 4 cm in diameter disappeared (p<0.05). Fifty six percent of gynecomastias lasting more than two years and 70% of those of a shorter duration disappeared (p=NS). Two patients had diarrhea or flushes associated to the therapy.

CONCLUSIONS: Tamoxifen is safe and effective for the treatment of gynecomastia. Larger lesions have a lower response to treatment.

PMID 18357357 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/18357357/

Lawrence and colleagues report their experience with the use of either raloxifene or tamoxifen, both antiestrogenic agents, in reducing breast size in adolescent boys with benign gynecomastia. The data presented are from a retrospective review of 37 patients: 12 received reassurance alone, 10 received raloxifene (60 mg once daily for 3 to 9 months), and 15 received tamoxifen (10 to 20 mg twice dialy for 3 to 9 months). Baseline studies including LH, FSH, testosterone, and estradiol levels were normal in all subjects and there were no significant differences among the groups with regard to age at initiation of treatment, Tanner stage, BMI or baseline hormone levels. Significant reductions in breast diameter were measured with both raloxifene (2.5cm, 66% reduction) and tamoxifen (2.1cm, 46% reduction). However, a 50% or greater reduction was seen more often in the raloxifene treated group (86% vs 41%). No side effects of the medications were reported.

^^^ Growth, Genetics, & Hormone Journal Volume 20, Issue 4, December 2004

Tamoxifen therapy for painful idiopathic gynecomastia.

AuthorsMcDermott MT, et al. Show all Journal
South Med J. 1990 Nov;83(11):1283-5.
Affiliation
Department of Medicine, Fitzsimons Army Medical Center, Aurora, CO 80045-5001.
Abstract
We have evaluated the efficacy of the antiestrogen tamoxifen in six men with painful idiopathic gynecomastia. Subjects were given either tamoxifen or placebo for 2 to 4 months and then were given the other agent for an identical period. Breast size was considered to have been reduced only if it had decreased by one or more Marshall-Tanner stages during the treatment period. Pain reduction with tamoxifen therapy was statistically significant for the group, occurring in five of six subjects during tamoxifen treatment and in only one of six during the placebo period. Size reduction with tamoxifen was only marginally significant for the entire group, but occurred in all three subjects who were initially in Marshall-Tanner stage III and in none of the three subjects who were initially in stage V. During tamoxifen treatment, there was a significant increase in the serum levels of luteinizing hormone and total estradiol and a marginally significant increment in the total testosterone level.

PMID 2237557 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/2237557/


There are a few more I can find if you'd like some more studies brother.

 

[uphillclimb]

I personally have never had gyno but SERMs have been shown to reduce the mass a great deal. Most patients have had greater than 50% reduction in tissue size with a good deal having complete reversal. The effectiveness will obviously vary but IMO the amount of money spent on SERM's to treat this and the efficacy rate lead it to be a viable option as well as the treatment being extremely well tolerated. Surgery, for those who want to avoid it for whatever reason, doesn't need to be the first treatment option but it is an effective on nonetheless. Another thing to consider would be that changing hormonal levels as we do here can always bring gyno back. Doesn't mean that it will come back on a cycle if estradiol and progesterone are managed properly but it is a possibility, even with the surgery. .

Thank you for taking the time for the cited references.

I get what you're saying however for someone that has battled this for a while and his tissue growing on to other things like tentacles; it seems like surgery would be the last and only option for complete elimination (or at least until he drops a couple hundred mgs of dbol again lol).

I'm a clomid/nolva/ost guy myself and haven't battled gyno either. Thanks again for the references brother. And welcome over to TID, you'll love it here.

 

[Docd187123]

Thank you for taking the time for the cited references.

I get what you're saying however for someone that has battled this for a while and his tissue growing on to other things like tentacles; it seems like surgery would be the last and only option for complete elimination (or at least until he drops a couple hundred mgs of dbol again lol).

I'm a clomid/nolva/ost guy myself and haven't battled gyno either. Thanks again for the references brother. And welcome over to TID, you'll love it here.

Both Nolva and ralox have reversed pubescent gyno years and years after the fact. I'm not saying anyone HAS to go this route, the choice is up to the individual of course, but based on the price, efficacy, and possible surgery it's an option. Even with most surgical procedures gyno can come back. Hopefully everyone does their research and due diligence and makes the most informed decision.

Not a problem for the references it was my pleasure.

Thank you for the warm welcome as well kind sir, I've already grown to like this place during my short stay

 

[Stumpy]

Both Nolva and ralox have reversed pubescent gyno years and years after the fact. I'm not saying anyone HAS to go this route, the choice is up to the individual of course, but based on the price, efficacy, and possible surgery it's an option. Even with most surgical procedures gyno can come back. Hopefully everyone does their research and due diligence and makes the most informed decision.

Not a problem for the references it was my pleasure.

Thank you for the warm welcome as well kind sir, I've already grown to like this place during my short stay

Even if the glands are removed during the surgery?

 

[Docd187123]

Even if the glands are removed during the surgery?

Doctors won't remove the whole gland/tissue and even if they attempted to they'd have to isolate and remove every single ductal cell in the breast tissue.

 

[Stumpy]

Doctors won't remove the whole gland/tissue and even if they attempted to they'd have to isolate and remove every single ductal cell in the breast tissue.

Yes they will, I looked into this with my gyno a few years ago.

 

[Docd187123]

Yes they will, I looked into this with my gyno a few years ago.

Are you talking about a mastectomy? From the doctors And surgeons I've spoken with and the literature I've come across when doctors say complete removal they're talking about the gynecomastia tissue. See first quote below as to what full removal of glandular tissue would entail.

To remove all of the glandular tissue the nipple would need to be removed. So removal of "all" the breast tissue is only performed for cancer treatment which is rare.A small amount of retained tissue is typically not an issue in the overwhelming majority of patients.

Properly performed gyne surgery will usually leave a little breast tissue to support the areola -- those surgeons are correct.

And if the patient then goes back to supplements, anabolic steroids or anything else that could possibly stimulate breast growth, then the small amount of residual breast tissue could indeed grow in size.

The majority of the gland is usually removed, as you've observed. Many bodybuilders develop gynecomastia early on, when they lack sophistication in their use and fail to take precautions to avoid gynecomastia from developing. Professional bodybuilders are generally more savvy in their drug use, using drugs to help to avoid recurrence. This is not fool-proof, and some do recur.

Gynecomastia surgery is not a cancer procedure it is a cosmetic one, therefore we want our chest to look good. To achieve this one may take out 80 to 90% of the gland. The remaining gland can still be stimulated by steroids,etc. I have found that adolescent male in which surgery is performed at a young age can recur because the hormones are still stimulating over growth. In most cases it is possible to see recurrence but not necessarily likely.

We have treated 28 breasts during a four month period. Seven patients were treated bilaterally, and 14 unilaterally. Mean age was 29 years (range 18–61 years). In 76 % of patients (17/21) gynecomastia was idiopathic. Former intake of anabolic steroids was the cause of gynecomastia in two patients, and the remaining two patients had renal insufficiency and liver insufficiency due to alcoholism respectively.
Ten out of 21 patients (48 %) were seeking treatment be- cause of cosmetic and psychological problems. Local pain was the reason in five patients (24 %) while in three patients (14 %) the indication was a combination of these problems. In the remaining three patients fear of cancer was the reason for seeking treatment.

RESULTS
Treatment was able to be performed by liposuction alone in three of 28 breasts (11 %) while in the remaining 25 breasts (89 %) excision of glandular tis- sue was done as well. Tissue volume removed by liposuction varied from 30 to 300 ml with a mean volume of 96 ml per breast. The volume of tissue re- moved by liposuction correlated with the breast size and technique was easier in fatty type gynecomastia. Histopathologic examination did not reveal any malignant changes in the removed glandular tissue. One patient developed a haematoma that needed reoperative surgery. He was treated by a combination of liposuction and gland excision. Five out of 21 (24 %) expressed discomfort, three patients (14 %) would choose general anaesthesia if they had been offered the possibility. At 18 month follow-up nipple sensation was found to be normal in all patients. Local tenderness found in 38 % of patients preoperatively was not found in any patient at 18 month follow-up. 3 patients (16%) had a recurrence of gynecomastia at 18 month follow-up.

I caution each of my patients that surgery does not typically stop male breast growth. If there is a problem with growing breasts, recurrence can happen. Any of these medical problems and or these medications can cause gynecomastia. So, if you want to get worried about regrowth, you could get yourself evaluated for each of these conditions to see if they could be a factor.

 

[Stumpy]

Yes I am aware and was told that to do this they'd remove my nipple during surgery. The Doc decided he didn't want to recommend me for surgery as in his opinion it's purely a cosmetic thing and there was no sign of any cancer issues. If I'd have wanted to go ahead with the surgery I'd have had to have done this privately and not on the social service.

 

[Docd187123]

Yes I am aware and was told that to do this they'd remove my nipple during surgery. The Doc decided he didn't want to recommend me for surgery as in his opinion it's purely a cosmetic thing and there was no sign of any cancer issues. If I'd have wanted to go ahead with the surgery I'd have had to have done this privately and not on the social service.

Yes if it's malignant it's a totally different issue. Well in either case I hope that's over and you got rid of the gyno bro