Is an anti estrogen needed?

[athens]

SHINE hit the nail on the head. I would also add that since your older you will certainly need an AI. Especially with the Dbol/Deca combo. I would play it like this.
#1. Aromasin 12.5 EOD
#2. Cabaser .25mg E3D

You can start here and work up or down. I only say add the cabaser because it works wonders for me and I'm around your age. I like Aromasin better because it's a suicidal inhibitor and it suppresses estrone at higher doses, which means you have less chance of too much estrogen suppression if you start at a lower dose.

 

[ketsugo]

Aromasin is proven to be one of the better ai's . Cabaser I consider a bandwagon compound as its probably psychosomatic at best. It has some other potential heart related sides, it's over priced and just not convinced its really ever needed.

 

[ketsugo]

For years people have done well without caber for deca, use an ai or use 2x test for 1 part deca. Caber supposedly used as a prolactin inhibitor but the amount of estrogen can effect prolactin, control that and no need to mess with caber or bromo or prami all the baloney people use for this.

 

[athens]

Aromasin is proven to be one of the better ai's . Cabaser I consider a bandwagon compound as its probably psychosomatic at best. It has some other potential heart related sides, it's over priced and just not convinced its really ever needed.

I would disagree with that statement. Only for the fact that Caber has worked quite well for many people with Tren as well as Deca induced prolactin sides myself included. I don't think people are going to use brain power to shrink a BB sized lump under their nipple. Heart related sides were found in the 5mg ED dosage levels. 0.25-0.5mg E3d is not going to cause side effects like the mitral valve issues found in higher dose cabaser users. Your starting point is always to control estrogen from the start of any AAS cycle. But as we grow older or add in new drugs to the mix we need to use other drugs to combat different side effects. Its kind of like the difference between using a SERM and an AI. Two separate drugs that have 2 different mode of actions. As well as different affinity for different receptors as well as types of tissue.

I think the research chems like to push their latest and greatest research chem out there. Back in the day it was Bromo, them came liquid cabergoline, now its that awful drug Pramipexole. Liquid cabergoline has questionable effectiveness in its liquid form, but the cabaser in tablet form has worked well for many people.

 

[SAD]

Could you elaborate on why prami is awful?

 

[athens]

Could you elaborate on why prami is awful?

I don't talk about what I don't know or what I haven't used. But from personal experience using Prami, I think this drug has too wide of dosing range to be safely used for weight lifters. Throw in the uncertainty of the "Research Chem" suppliers dosing and you can see where Im coming from. I had been using Prami for 2 weeks when the falling asleep side effect happened to me. What makes this even worse is that I was in the middle of a heavy set of inclines when I stared to feel like I was passing out or falling asleep. I think that if I had not taken a pre workout supp to amp me up a bit I might have passed out and dropped the weight on myself. If I didn't have the experience and a fair bit of pharmacology knowledge, I would have went to the ER not knowing why I felt that way.

I always do my homework with any drug. I thought the low incidence of side effects would be acceptable. I've listed a few below:
extreme drowsiness, falling asleep suddenly, even after feeling alert;hallucinations;fever, stiff muscles, confusion, sweating, fast or uneven heartbeats;nausea, sweating, feeling light-headed, fainting; feeling restless; or compulsive behavior.

Falling asleep suddenly is exactly how I felt when I was lifting that day. Personally I don't think it's good for anyone lifting weights to suddenly fall asleep(even after feeling alert). I had been using Prami for about 2 weeks when this happened. My training partner also experienced bad reaction to prami and this was while driving to work. Again, if this can happen to two experienced weight lifters, it can certainly happen to the noob that sees this stuff for sale on the chem research sites and decided to give it a try without doing their homework. Due to personal experience, I think this is an awful drug that people need to understand very well before deciding to use or completely stay away from.

 

[SAD]

I don't talk about what I don't know or what I haven't used. But from personal experience using Prami, I think this drug has too wide of dosing range to be safely used for weight lifters. Throw in the uncertainty of the "Research Chem" suppliers dosing and you can see where Im coming from. I had been using Prami for 2 weeks when the falling asleep side effect happened to me. What makes this even worse is that I was in the middle of a heavy set of inclines when I stared to feel like I was passing out or falling asleep. I think that if I had not taken a pre workout supp to amp me up a bit I might have passed out and dropped the weight on myself. If I didn't have the experience and a fair bit of pharmacology knowledge, I would have went to the ER not knowing why I felt that way.

I always do my homework with any drug. I thought the low incidence of side effects would be acceptable. I've listed a few below:
extreme drowsiness, falling asleep suddenly, even after feeling alert;hallucinations;fever, stiff muscles, confusion, sweating, fast or uneven heartbeats;nausea, sweating, feeling light-headed, fainting; feeling restless; or compulsive behavior.

Falling asleep suddenly is exactly how I felt when I was lifting that day. Personally I don't think it's good for anyone lifting weights to suddenly fall asleep(even after feeling alert). I had been using Prami for about 2 weeks when this happened. My training partner also experienced bad reaction to prami and this was while driving to work. Again, if this can happen to two experienced weight lifters, it can certainly happen to the noob that sees this stuff for sale on the chem research sites and decided to give it a try without doing their homework. Due to personal experience, I think this is an awful drug that people need to understand very well before deciding to use or completely stay away from.

I used prami for about 8 weeks this past summer to combat tren sides and I think it helped tremendously. I experienced slight drowsiness during the day for the first 2 weeks and no sides after that. Doesn't hurt that it increases igf either. That sucks that you had a bad reaction to it and it clearly isn't the best choice for you, but many of the compounds we take come with possible sides and some people will experience the worst of them, like me and drol, but I think its unfair to say that its a horrible drug for everyone because you and your buddy had a bad reaction to it.

 

[SHINE]

I used prami for about 8 weeks this past summer to combat tren sides and I think it helped tremendously. I experienced slight drowsiness during the day for the first 2 weeks and no sides after that. Doesn't hurt that it increases igf either. That sucks that you had a bad reaction to it and it clearly isn't the best choice for you, but many of the compounds we take come with possible sides and some people will experience the worst of them, like me and drol, but I think its unfair to say that its a horrible drug for everyone because you and your buddy had a bad reaction to it.

biochem individuality, affects everyone a bit different. Dostinex is the only thing i've run.

 

[Tuffoldman]

I don't anti-e's unless I need them. What I mean is I keep A-Dex on hand as wel as Cab in case I start to bloat but I have used them in past 3-4 cycle and have not had any issues at all with Gyno since I stopped using Deca several years ago.


~Old

 

[athens]

biochem individuality, affects everyone a bit different. Dostinex is the only thing i've run.

Very True. Not just with AI's, SERM's or Dopamine Agonist, but even with AAS.

I used prami for about 8 weeks this past summer to combat tren sides and I think it helped tremendously. I experienced slight drowsiness during the day for the first 2 weeks and no sides after that. Doesn't hurt that it increases igf either. That sucks that you had a bad reaction to it and it clearly isn't the best choice for you, but many of the compounds we take come with possible sides and some people will experience the worst of them, like me and drol, but I think its unfair to say that its a horrible drug for everyone because you and your buddy had a bad reaction to it.

The only reason I say it's a horrible drug is because of who it is being marketed to within the BB community. Weightlifters and bodybuilders need to be alert and aware of their surroundings. I would hate to read about some juiced up guido squatting big weight and all the sudden start to fall asleep or be under a barbell and drop the weight on themselves. I tend to analyze things from all directions which makes me see things others usually do not. In reading post on a few other boards I have found that statistically people have more issues with side effects on Prami than the other drugs of its class.

 

[afton]

Just wanted to say thanks for everyones input. Great information as always and clarified everything for me. Thanks!