Interesting Question...

Discussion in 'General Powerlifting Discussion' started by BrotherIron, Feb 18, 2017.

  1. BrotherIron

    BrotherIron TID Board Of Directors

    Mar 6, 2011
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    When I was younger, I always thought that I got stronger when I gained weight. My weight would increase and so would my numbers... with work performed of course. Now, I wonder if that's the case. Did I get actually get stronger or did the size/weight increase give me better levers allowing me to lift more?

    Perhaps this could be tested using a tendo unit and seeing how much force I'm able to create at the given weight while moving "x" amount.

    My point to this... my old Oly coach encouraged us to gain weight (us superheavies) b/c in his own words... it's mass moving mass. Add mass to move more mass (bar weight). So, in fact did we get stronger?

    What do you think? What is your opinion on the matter? Just thought this would spark some discussion.
     
  2. FLEXjs

    FLEXjs TID Board Of Directors

    Apr 23, 2012
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    Depends on the lift. Squats without question the more I weigh the more I squat. Somewhat with Deads but to a lesser degree than squats. Bench it doesn't seem to matter.
     
  3. rawdeal

    rawdeal TID Board Of Directors

    Nov 29, 2013
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    Since there would be no limits in the Supers, what kinda weight gain was he suggesting? Just a "don't worry about your diet" gain of 10-20lbs, or a deliberate effort to add 50 or more?

    And . . . . did he offer related advice to the smaller weight classes, i.e. gain up to the next weight class and wind up with a higher ranking? Guess that 2nd one might vary with height, maybe other factors. That one is the eternal question in all bodyweight sports . . . . boxing, "real" wrestling, MMA, etc.

    BI, you and I have occasionally discussed the old days in OL. We have seen bigger is betters like Alexeev and Reding give way to sub-300lb'ers whose names I forget, then a rebound to another bigger is better from Iran, maybe there IS no rule of thumb here? (not an opinion, just my way of continuing the discussion)
     
  4. BrotherIron

    BrotherIron TID Board Of Directors

    Mar 6, 2011
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    My coach felt all superheavies should be 300+ at least once. I started out around 270 and grew up to 307 (140kg). Could I move more weight... For the guys, he would eventually push everyone to gain more, move up classes. Now, I'm not saying what he did was right. I honestly think it wasn't but hey.. when you're in your 20's and your coach says eat to lift more (all the while providing the food), you eat more.

    Chemerkin is the name that comes to mind when I think "big" supers. Redding was a monster and back from the original old guard. Any man who can clean and press 501lbs is a monster. He held that record for 3 min before Alekseyev took it from him with his 503lbs. I watched the vid of that meet.

    My favorite lifters were all Soviet, they even influence my lifting today, and my favorite was Pisarenko. He didn't have that typical larger then life superheavy look. He looked like a superhuman athlete and my coach watched him jerk 600+. I always felt he was truly strong considering he wasn't nearly as huge but put up the massive numbers.
     
  5. Yomo

    Yomo VIP Member

    Dec 18, 2015
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    great discussion...

    it seems to always boil down to, in what way do you measure strength....a large majority of people utilize weight lifted/bodyweight...

    An article I've always found interesting:

    http://www.strongerbyscience.com/whos-the-most-impressive-powerlifter/


    from personal experience (albeit very little), the transition from 210-215lbs, down to 190-195lbs BW has been humbling to say the least...let alone when I compare my numbers to anyone's name even near a "Top 50" in any category of lift...
     
  6. PillarofBalance

    PillarofBalance Strength Pimp Staff Member

    Feb 27, 2011
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    Well we know strength isn't linear.

    We also know that gaining or losing weight changes our leverages.

    I think a lot of this comes down to mental attitudes and leverages.

    If your ROM on bench using the same technique is shortened by an inch after gaining 10lbs then duh you will bench more. What if at a lighter weight you work on thoracic mobility and lose that inch of ROM again?

    Perfect example last summer I cut from about 260 to 242. I was the leanest I had ever been. But my bench was the strongest it had ever been.

    I could go back and forth on this all day really.
     
    woodswise likes this.
  7. BrotherIron

    BrotherIron TID Board Of Directors

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    Interesting that your bench was the strongest it had ever been. I can only speak for myself but from my experience, bench suffers the most when I drop weight. Squats don't seem to take much of a hit if any.

    Interesting you were able to change your leverage when cutting to put yourself in a better position to perform the lift.
     
  8. rawdeal

    rawdeal TID Board Of Directors

    Nov 29, 2013
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    It's all just theoretical,, and probably negligible, but . . . . in a Squat, you are elevating the weight on the bar plus your own bodyweight. So if you lose a few lbs, you may indeed lose a little strength, BUT you have also reduced the total weight being lifted, thereby reporting no loss of strength? . . . . . . kinda,sorta, maybe?
     
  9. chicken_hawk

    chicken_hawk VIP Member

    Oct 28, 2010
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    I do enjoy these philosophical topics with reasonable brothers. Speaking of mechanics and weight gain. I think it depends on the lift, extra weight may provide a big belly to rest on legs during a squat or snatch a weight off the ground. On the other hand a big belly can hinder a conventional dead lift at times. ALSO, I hear of people cutting weight as I have and improving as I have, but are we totally disregarding our training during this period of weight loss. Because given the two, I would argue that training has more impact then the addition of weight.

    Also, gaining weight as suggested often means more muscle. I remember in the 80's some suggested gaining lots of fat because fat people naturaly have more muscle. Ie sumo wrestlers.

    Now, I believe that the avarage competitor (recreational) amatuer does best if they do not have to cut weight for a meet. So, for me I say let it happen naturaly and add weight intentionally only if planning to move up a wt. class.

    Hawk
     
  10. prime

    prime TID Board Of Directors

    Dec 31, 2011
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    I've heard in the past way back in the day that weight you gain mass to the muscles it changes the lever action and there is a synergistic effect. Like on bench etc. But hearsay.
     
  11. shortz

    shortz Beard of Knowledge VIP

    May 6, 2013
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    From the most basic concept, gaining weight to gain strength simply tells us that we are eating enough to gain muscle mass, and therefore, continue gaining strength. As we progress, we learn what our maintenance intake is and become much more proficient at predicting what our bodies need. IMO, most athletes start to experience dramatic diminishing returns at around the 16 or 18% + BF ranges.

    I know some will try to argue about certain athletes, like NFL linemen, get to much greater BFs, however, this is not because they are continuing to gain strength, but because they need the mass for their role in the game; becoming an immovable mass.
     
  12. BrotherIron

    BrotherIron TID Board Of Directors

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    Gaining and losing weight definitely changes your levers in performing a lift.
     
    prime likes this.

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