Insulin boost?

[SHINE]

This is not a pissing match or super hero thing, A few questions worth talking about that bring up some good scientific knowledge and expand our thinking outside of the normal.

I enjoy both your replys, let's keep it civil please gentleman.

Good work on the Progress HDH.

 

[HDH]

This is not a pissing match or super hero thing, A few questions worth talking about that bring up some good scientific knowledge and expand our thinking outside of the normal.

I enjoy both your replys, let's keep it civil please gentleman.

Good work on the Progress HDH.

Thanks for your help SHINE. I didn't expect this to be a pissing match. It started off "No disrespect to the question- but..." And then nothing but disrespect. He knew what he was doing, he is to easy to read.

Same thing happened at Bass's board only with Glyco. As far as I'm concerned this discussion is over here for me just like it is over there.

No disrespect to Bass, it had nothing to do with him.

I'm just not into the drama anymore. It takes the focus away from my goals and I'm just not willing to lose sight of those because of closed minds and big mouths.

Thanks again,
HDH

 

[Big Cat]

It's indeed a tough question to answer, because testosterone has immediate protein synthesis amplifying effects within a short period of administration (White et al. 2013) but also effects that occur after transcription, that can take much longer, also depending on rates of translation. To confound matters, even the immediate effects seem to undergo a feed forward mechanism that amplifies the effect after several hours (24 h is aforementioned reference).

However I'm not entirely sure if the question has merit, since use of long-estered AAS on a weekly basis provides a stable, slightly cumulative elevation of AAS levels that would provide the necessary boost at the time of your insulin use, as well as during any other time of day when protein synthesis is amplified : any protein feeding, any form of exercise etc. So even if one could find an answer to the above question of how to best synergistically time a bolus of AAS with a bolus of insulin (and I'm not sure you could), I'm not convinced it has additional use. Transient increases in hormone levels are rarely that beneficial compared to continuous elevation.

 

[HDH]

First I want to thank SHINE for the invite back.

Secondly, thanks for your reply BigCat. I knew I wouldn't get a text book answer on this one but I was hoping with enough input from knowledgeable and experienced people from around the community, I could take everything that was said and make a decision from there.

Honestly, I wasn't expecting your level of input so thanks again.

Unfortunately, my education doesn't go beyond a GED so that makes it harder for me when it comes to subjects such as this.

I started to reply and found myself asking what might seem to be stupid questions. I've decided not to ask the questions and run searches so I fully understand what you are saying and how the process works.

Today and tomorrow are the longest days of the week for me because of the jobs. Right now I'm between jobs and don't have much time. It might be after tomorrow before I am able to make a reply and fully understand the process of how it works.

I usually have many questions when I'm interested in how things work but I also believe in doing the footwork myself. It's how I understand the best and I feel bothered if I have questions.

I've started searches on transcription and translation. The vids are doing me no good. I'll have to do some reading and then maybe the vids will make more sense.

HDH

 

[SHINE]

First I want to thank SHINE for the invite back.

Secondly, thanks for your reply BigCat. I knew I wouldn't get a text book answer on this one but I was hoping with enough input from knowledgeable and experienced people from around the community, I could take everything that was said and make a decision from there.

Honestly, I wasn't expecting your level of input so thanks again.

Unfortunately, my education doesn't go beyond a GED so that makes it harder for me when it comes to subjects such as this.

I started to reply and found myself asking what might seem to be stupid questions. I've decided not to ask the questions and run searches so I fully understand what you are saying and how the process works.

Today and tomorrow are the longest days of the week for me because of the jobs. Right now I'm between jobs and don't have much time. It might be after tomorrow before I am able to make a reply and fully understand the process of how it works.

I usually have many questions when I'm interested in how things work but I also believe in doing the footwork myself. It's how I understand the best and I feel bothered if I have questions.

I've started searches on transcription and translation. The vids are doing me no good. I'll have to do some reading and then maybe the vids will make more sense.

HDH

Thanks for bringing this thread up, I am learning much out of this discussion. Not only re-reading the Russian study but also The Follow up by BigCat who no doubt is years above the rest with his incredible level of wisdom and research on these maters.

Much thanks to BigCat for taking the time to respond on this thread.

 

[HDH]

This ended up being easier to understand than I thought. I just needed to read the process and let each part soak in as I was reading. The videos weren't giving me any time to process what I was thinking as I went along.

I was at work asking myself if this question really holds any merit. I think it does because of the strength and aggression that is felt when injecting base or taking strong 17aa anabolics before a training session such as halo. They show an almost immediate affect. At least at a time when the insulin would be circulating and doing it's job.

You also mentioned a feed forward mechanism that amplifies the effect after several hours ( up to 24). That part puzzles me because of the strength and aggression.

I understand that strength and aggression are seen before growth even in the simplest of cycles, even though it can take a couple weeks depending on the ester, we are growing as well but just at a slower rate so it is harder to tell without a little time behind it. That's why I suspected that since strength and aggression were apparent, the insulin might get a boost and help with growth even further.

I might not be correct in the way I'm looking at this but I do believe the question holds merit. I also think the fact that it's a tough question to answer holds merit. LOL

It's kind of funny how this thought process started for me. I got a bottle of test base from an auction a while back ago. I didn't really care about it and didn't know if I would even use it. I was trying to figure out the best way to maximize the single bottle without buying any more or wasting what I had. I thought I might use it before a few training sessions for the little extra strength and aggression for lagging body parts. Then I started to wonder what effects it might have with the insulin pre workout. And here we are.

HDH

 

[HDH]

Thanks for bringing this thread up, I am learning much out of this discussion. Not only re-reading the Russian study but also The Follow up by BigCat who no doubt is years above the rest with his incredible level of wisdom and research on these maters.

Much thanks to BigCat for taking the time to respond on this thread.

I need to get back to the study. I got sidetracked yesterday and didn't get back to it. There is a lot to learn from it. It makes me glad I'm sticking with the lower dosed cycles as well.

Sure, I can get more strength from the higher doses but my old ass just doesn't need all that strength anymore. The injured list sucks ass.

HDH

 

[John Benz]

I'm truly impressed with the knowledge in this thread. There are a lot of chemical gurus....but on all the boards there is no one like Big Cat!

HDH...very impressive my friend. Congrats on your progress...a lot of hard work and discipline is evident here and you look great for any age. It's also clear that you know how your body responds and thse progress pics prove it. Keep up the good work and don't let any detractors get you down. MUCH RESPECT!

 

[Big Cat]

If you feel an immediate strength response, that can't possibly be because of increased growth or muscle protein synthesis. Even when muscle protein synthesis is immediate, as with training, supra insulin etc, this cause upregulation of the mTOR translation initiaton pathway that peaks at about 1 hour, but between translation initiation and incorporation of proteins into the myofibrillar structure, we are talking some considerable amount of time.

Immediate effects on strength are therefor likely the result of neurological factors, or biochemical ones that influence energy use. Similar to what you may expect from caffeine and creatine. How actively increased strength from those factors will actually contribute to growth is still a matter of debate, but its questionable that its THAT considerable.

 

[HDH]

If you feel an immediate strength response, that can't possibly be because of increased growth or muscle protein synthesis. Even when muscle protein synthesis is immediate, as with training, supra insulin etc, this cause upregulation of the mTOR translation initiaton pathway that peaks at about 1 hour, but between translation initiation and incorporation of proteins into the myofibrillar structure, we are talking some considerable amount of time.

Immediate effects on strength are therefor likely the result of neurological factors, or biochemical ones that influence energy use. Similar to what you may expect from caffeine and creatine. How actively increased strength from those factors will actually contribute to growth is still a matter of debate, but its questionable that its THAT considerable.

Now that, I can understand. I've got to say you've left me with no questions on this one. It's a lot easier to understand knowing the process as well.

Hell, I almost hate for it to be over but I have learned quite a bit in my little search for this answer. These types of discussions leave me feeling hungry and wanting more knowledge.

I didn't realize that using a base anabolic just started the process and the process continued for that 24 hour period even though more would be needed to continue a stable process before the process was actually finished. Did I say that right? LOL... J/K

That also explains to me why I don't really see a difference in taking an oral once a day instead of breaking it up.

Thanks for taking up your time in this, I'm sure you're pretty busy and have plenty of other things you could be doing.

HDH

 

[HDH]

I'm truly impressed with the knowledge in this thread. There are a lot of chemical gurus....but on all the boards there is no one like Big Cat!

HDH...very impressive my friend. Congrats on your progress...a lot of hard work and discipline is evident here and you look great for any age. It's also clear that you know how your body responds and thse progress pics prove it. Keep up the good work and don't let any detractors get you down. MUCH RESPECT!

Thanks man, I appreciate it. I wanted to respond this morning but I was starting to run late for work and I hate to be late. They wouldn't say anything but it doesn't sit right with me. I ended up with a little time between jobs again today so I was able to respond.

This last year my goal was just transformation. I had a couple years off due to a drinking problem but I haven't had a drink in about 21 months. I got clean for a bit before I got back into the weights.

This next year is going to be a gaining year for me. I'd like to do it as lean as possible. I know what to do I just need to continue to put the time in.

Thanks again bud,

HDH

 

[SHINE]

I need to get back to the study. I got sidetracked yesterday and didn't get back to it. There is a lot to learn from it. It makes me glad I'm sticking with the lower dosed cycles as well.

Sure, I can get more strength from the higher doses but my old ass just doesn't need all that strength anymore. The injured list sucks ass.

HDH

Well I am right there with you on the old and injured list, lol low dose and hrt for me these days.