How to make your own transdermal carrier:

Discussion in 'Anabolic Steroids' started by jhotsauce7, Aug 15, 2013.

  1. jhotsauce7

    jhotsauce7 TID Board Of Directors

    Jan 18, 2011
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    Found this when looking for phlojel alternatives .... Curious what you guys think... Maybe Some of you can chime in

    Introduction

    The current wave of local delivery topicals is based on the work of Marcel Nimni (Nimni, 1989, Nimni et al, 1997 & 1998) who developed and patented the trans-phase delivery system in 1989. The local delivery of products was reviewed by Guy and Maibach in 1982, and clearly demonstrated a number of products substantially increased localized subcutaneous concentrations of topically applied products. The products that best succeeded in doing this were those that were amphiphillic, that means they are soluble in both water and organic solvents (alcohols and oils for example).

    Nimni's idea was simple : make the compound that needs to be delivered stable and amphiphillic and you can get substantial local delivery, with very minimal systemic delivery. This gives a predominantly localized effect, with minimum systemic (side-)effects. As research has previously demonstrated, benzyl alcohol can form micelles with organic ingredients, like most drugs used, in an aqueous environment. That means if you dissolve the products in benzyl alcohol you form an amphiphillic complex that can pass the skin and is taken up locally in the subcutaneous tissue to a great extent. Simply using benzyl alcohol and your product would already allow for local delivery, especially since benzyl is also a good penetrant of the skin due to its amphiphillic properties. But Nimni's system consisted of two phases. The second phase being a mixture of acetone and isopropanol. Both these solvents are very volatile and have both been shown to enhance skin permeation (Onken and Moyer, 1963). The idea is that the acetone and isopropanol make the skin more permeable and then evaporate, creating a sort of funneling effect that leaves the product entirely dissolved in the less volatile benzyl alcohol, which forms the amphiphillic micelles and carries the product across the skin. It transfers as it were, from one phase to another, and hence was dubbed the trans-phase delivery system by Nimni and his associates (Nimni et al, 1997).

    Here are some good tips for people wanting to try this :

    - All the ingredients, contrary to the current line of products using this technology are very cheap and very easy to get at any drugstore.

    - The current line of products does not use acetone, even though research shows it to be the better product. they only use isopropanol. Using both however will create a much better and more stable effect. Nimni's idea was to use the two products with different evaporation rates to create more of a funneling effect whereby the acetone evaporates, leaving product funneled in a mixture of isopropanol and benzyl and then shortly after the isopropanol evaporates leaving it all in the benzyl.

    How to make your own TPDS :

    Take the product you wish to deliver, then add benzyl alcohol until it is entirely dissolved, even a few drops more (adequate benzyl for product). Then add a mixture of 4 parts acetone and 5 parts isopropanol, until you get the volume that gives you the desired concentration of drug per ml, and then apply as many ml as necessary to the site of application, twice daily.

    Penetration enhancement

    The rate limiting step, believe it or not, is still the permeation through the skin. The rate limiting step for that is permeation through the outer most layer, the stratum corneum. The stratum corneum can be depicted, for functional purposes, as a brick wall. The cells, called corneocytes, are the bricks, and in between is a continuous lipid layer that represents the mortar. Whether you traverse the stratum corneum through or between the cells, your penetration enhancers shoudl always exert an effect on the lipid layer. Almost all known permeation enhancers, with the exception of DMSO, work solely on the lipid layer. So that should not be a problem.

    Here comes the tricky part, and another were manufacturers of existing products have fumbled a great deal. Penetration enhancers that do not evaporate (like acetone and isopropanol) also traverse the skin. They also dissolve organic compounds very well. That means if you volume of penetration enhancers is to great, a great deal of your product will traverse the skin dissolved in your permeation enhancer instead of in the benzyl micelles, and will be taken up systemic. Making all your efforts fruitless and rendering your product nothing more than a more expensive transdermal product. So when selecting permeation enhancers, select those that have the most effect in the smallest known volume. That is one area where most current products drop the ball.

    Occlusion : the contradiction

    Occlusion is often used with percutaneous absorption, whether it be local or transdermal, and has been shown to increase penetration of the skin. At first it was believed that this occured through the increase of water in the skin, but increased water was shown to have a minimal effect on lipid disorder in the lipid layers of the stratum corneum (Suhonen et al, 1999), so most likely it is a combination of both increased hydration and increased heat together, with either factor being relatively irrelevant alone.

    The contradiction however is that occlusion is not an option with TPDS, since it would prevent evaporation of the first phase, resulting in part of the first phase traversing the skin, with product dissolved, resulting in systemic and not local delivery

    This is yet another reason for an extremely small volume of penetration enhancers. If you cannot accomodate this, then it is best not to use PE's at all, as Nimni himself did, rather than risk affecting your primary delivery system.

    Why Skulpt didn't work, but how you can make it work in your favour

    Skulpt was an analog that was released for a while and then pulled again, that attempted to compete with aforementioned products, but despite all the obvious flaws in said products, failed at doing so.

    The idea behind it was to use DMSO as a carrier instead of benzyl alcohol. DMSO is an incredibly potent penetration enhancer that affects both the lipid layers and the structure of the cells in between. It is also amphiphillic and easily builds up in subcutaneous tissues in high concentrations, and a good solvent for most organic compounds. So what was the problem ? Well, apparently DMSO does not function as a carrier. Instead it traverses the skin first and then pulls the product through, so to speak (kurihara-Bergstromm et al, 1987). Which is why skulpt failed.

    Using a smaller dose of DMSO with the TPDS would also fail. First of all, when using DMSO as a solvent you need at least 50% for it to work adequately, while even 5% would already be enough to prevent TPDS from working properly. It traverses the skin and is a good solvent, so most of the product would dissolve in the DMSO and be lost systemically, rather than delivered locally through funneling to the benzyl phase.

    Using DMSO however would benefit us greatly. Repeated application of percutaneous products results in less and less uptake with each use, and this occurs mostly through resistance in the lipid layers (Barry et all, 1972). So using a product that also works on the cells would definitely attenuate this decrease much much longer.

    So how can we use DMSO ? Well the same researchers that found DMSO did not function as a carrier also tested an assymetrical model where they applied the DMSO first, and then the product. This resulted in a notably enhanced uptake of the compound WITH LESS DMSO THAN WHEN USING IT AS A SOLVENT. That means if you pretreat the skin with DMSO, and then apply your TPDS 5-10 minutes later, you have effectively created a product that blows any existing product out of the water.

    But because you need less DMSO, and still have better and longer working penetration because of it, and don't require any of the large volume penetration enhancers often used, that screw up TPDS delivery, you save even more money (less DMSO, no other PE's and cheap TPDS in drug store) and get a much greater effect (DMSO stronger PE, TPDS works better).

    Considering it was the PE's (and possibly greed) that made these initial formula's so extremely expensive, and that skulpt was also extremely expensive because of the high dose and high quality DMSO (you can choose for yourself now what quality DMSO you like) and both delivered relatively poor results, its basically a win-win situation.

    Conclusion

    You can no effectively make a local delivery formula in your kitchen that is ten times more effective, and ten times cheaper than any existing formula, and on top of that it allows you to look for cheaper ingredients, ingredients or combinations thereof that you deem more fit, or ingredients that couldn't be legally used by supplement companies.

    And trust me, the inquisitive mind can easily improve on even this formula 5-10 times

    Enjoy all homebrewers ...
     
    tommyguns2 likes this.
  2. SJA

    SJA MuscleHead

    Feb 24, 2011
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    Do any of the other old guys on here remember the days at Avant Labs? I vaguely remember this coming up and it's a great post. I, personally, do not like using the heavy weight solvents (Acetone, MEK etc) due to their carcinogenic nature. Benzyl Alcohol, however, would be a great substitute for Isopropyl alcohol. After reading this, I was thinking that just doing a mix of DMSO and BA may be a great easy PE mix. I know via bloodwork that putting DMSO over an applied TD bumps it up a notch. I have never tried it as a "pre-treatment" and will put that at the top of the trial list.

    Great find JHOT........gonna get the brains going in here!! I know that the TD gurus will be on this one :)
     
  3. jhotsauce7

    jhotsauce7 TID Board Of Directors

    Jan 18, 2011
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    I know they will.... What do you think about dmso at 10-20% (99.9% pure) and BA/Isopropyl Myristate? And I've heard of a guy using menthol as a secondary carrier/tertiary penetration enhancer but I'm not sure that is available OTC ...
     
  4. tommyguns2

    tommyguns2 Senior Moderators Staff Member

    Dec 25, 2010
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    thanks jhot! It's a lot to put my head around at the moment. Am wondering what type of enhancement I'd see if I simply dissolved my powder in a minimal amount of benzyl alcohol and then incorporating that into my PJU?

    Wouldn't putting the BA dissolved powder straight into 4 parts acetone and 5 parts isopropanol result in a liquid that would be difficult to apply? Just thinking out loud here.
     
  5. jhotsauce7

    jhotsauce7 TID Board Of Directors

    Jan 18, 2011
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    I wouldn't say it would be difficult to apply but it would be a liquid as opposed to a cream... A topical as opposed to a TRUE transdermal .... It could be kept in a container like a liquid oral is.. Put dmso on skin, squirt it on, add more dmso on top... Since both iso and BA are permeating carriers and Dmso is a good enhancer the absorption of this method would be quite formidable
     
  6. SJA

    SJA MuscleHead

    Feb 24, 2011
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    IPM at 15% is a great PE. Menthol, Capsaicin and camphor were all trial items back in the development of Ab-solved, Lipo Burn and Skulpt.....mostly for localized effect, however, there was discussion that the Yohimbe needed to go systemic so other carriers ended up in the mix (that was a long time ago and I'm old so if I missed a detail or two I'm blaming it on senility) :)
     
  7. SJA

    SJA MuscleHead

    Feb 24, 2011
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    I actually prefer liquid over cream for penetration. Acetone and Isoprop (especially with menthol) would potentially irritate the skin. Putting in a skin softener (PG, DMGE, OA) will help alleviate this and keep those pores from closing up.
     
  8. jhotsauce7

    jhotsauce7 TID Board Of Directors

    Jan 18, 2011
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    I found a mention of peppermint or spearmint oil and also Aloe vera oil or gel... This or a horse type linimint formula will likely be what I use going forward after I run out of phlojel. I will likely leave out the acetone if possible because it on its own is extremely caustic and that with dmso another known irritant will spell trouble.

    Right now I'm looking at applying dmso/then iso/raw/lineament cream or iso/raw/peppermint oil then dmso again .

    My DMSO is liquid not jel so I think it will absorb faster and irritate less 70% 99.9 purity dmso, 30% sterile water I think it says
     
  9. jhotsauce7

    jhotsauce7 TID Board Of Directors

    Jan 18, 2011
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    Would there be any sense inputting some dmso in the initial mix? I guess people say it was no good as a carrier but just as a pen enhancer... So what if:

    60% iso, 25% aloe vera/peppermint oil 10% dmso, and 5% approximately left for displacement. ( spraying on liquid dmso before and after as well )

    I would like to try ism or pg but 99% sure I can't get them locally and my lab tests are on a very tight timeframe!!
     
  10. jhotsauce7

    jhotsauce7 TID Board Of Directors

    Jan 18, 2011
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    Also with a blend of iso and phlojel is one able to supersaturate it at higher concentrations... Say 150mg/ml? Or will this disrupt absorption
     
  11. SJA

    SJA MuscleHead

    Feb 24, 2011
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    I have had people use PJU and rub DMSO or DMF (the more toxic version of DMSO.....they are both dipolar aprotic solvents) over the top. Their T levels increased when using test base (PJU versus PJU + solvent). I have mixed constituents into DMSO, ISO, IPM etc prior to mixing into PJU and it works well. The key is to mix them in a mortar and pestle so that the grit is completely non-existent prior to mixing in the PJU. Then mix in the PJU a little at a time (pre weigh the PJU) insuring that all has been made homogenous prior to adding more to the mix.
     
  12. jhotsauce7

    jhotsauce7 TID Board Of Directors

    Jan 18, 2011
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    Interesting
    I did a bit of research and found this, which was kind o a FAQ sheet for people making transdermal yohimbine hcl ... Clearly some of the info stated differs such as use of dmso and ism


    But it does mention some other carriers and pen enhancers that are more commonly found.. I read recently that eucalyptis extract increased nicotine absorption in a trial as Much as 30x





    CARRIERS

    a. Organic carriers- aloe vera, while aloe vera gel is effective, the use of pure liquid aloe vera is better and thus recommended. This carrier also hydrates the skin

    b. Menthol either diluted (see oil list below) or in a cream base like Aspercreme (1%menthol) or Bengay (16%menthol) (which may itself have some localized effects- aspirin has been shown to inhibit oxidative phosphoralation) salicylic acid (aspirin is also a penetration enhancer). This category includes peppermint (50% l-menthol), wintergreen(50-70%) and spearmint oils(50-70%)- all of which are excellent carriers and penetration enhancers- if using oils be sure to dilute about 8 parts water or aloe vera to 1 part oil.

    c. Capsicum- contained in several cream products (the more capsicum the better)- will increase absorption, may have some localized effect on fat burning. This may be too harsh for some- perhaps best diluted and added to other carriers.

    e. Pluronic gel- aka phlogel- should only be used in areas with poor blood flow- as it will dramatically increase uptake. This is difficult to obtain and probably not worth the effort as similar results can be obtained cheaper and more easily.

    POSSIBLE CARRIERS BUT NOT RECOMMENDED

    f. Alcohol- that's right plain alcohol- which is what most of the topical prohormones use (it is gelled alcohol)- though this is better as a carrier for prohormones- it is not recommended for use with Yohimbine HCl except to clean the site prior to admin.

    g. isopropyl myristate- a widely available, cheap, cosmetic ingredient ... Add this to alcohol and you have the same formula used in ANDRO-GEL- by Unimed Pharmaceutical- This option is also not recommended- though it is one that I looked into earlier it may be a alternative to DMSO with respect to finaplix)

    *************

    h. DMSO- this works well but may speed yohimbine too quickly into blood stream and makes your breath stink of garlic- it is a option for those who want to take a lower dose (high dose with DMSO may be unwise) and mix with crushed T3 tabs or triac (this is illegal- actually the use of DMSO as a carrier is illegal- so this is for informational purposes only) Though I think that topical use with other carriers and oral t3 use are more effective- but it is worth mentioning as some have gotten good results with this combo.

    The best thing to do is to try these different carriers to find the ones that are right for you- the easiest to get are MENTHOL (Aspercreme, Bengay, peppermint oil-diluted) and aloe and perhaps swab the area with alcohol just prior- for most people this is sufficient to get good results. If you have large pockets of fat with little blood flow- i.e. these areas are always cold- then using stronger penetration enhancers is advisable. Women, because they have thinner skin, will probably need to use less penetration enhancers.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2013

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