Higher myonuclei density in muscle fibers persists among former users of anabolic androgenic steroids

[MR. BMJ]

Higher Myonuclei Density in Muscle Fibers Persists Among Former Users of Anabolic Androgenic Steroids

AbstractContext. No information exists on the long-lasting effects of supraphysiological anabolic androgenic steroids (AASs) usage on the myocellular properties

academic.oup.com

FULL TEXT: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1g_9UmIVkZFbXS9--9EstA8cZH5313anL/view?pli=1

Higher myonuclei density in muscle fibers persists among former users of anabolic androgenic steroids
The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, dgad432, https://doi.org/10.1210/clinem/dgad432
Published: 19 July 2023

Abstract​

Background and objective: No information exists on the long-lasting effects of supraphysiological anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS) usage on the myocellular properties of human skeletal muscle in previous AAS users. We hypothesized former AAS users would demonstrate smaller myonuclei domains (i.e., higher myonuclei density) compared to matched controls.

Methods: A community-based cross-sectional study in men aged 18-50 years engaged in recreational strength training. Muscle biopsies were obtained from the m. vastus lateralis. Immunofluorescence analyses were performed to quantify myonuclei density and myofiber size.

Results: Twenty-five males were included: 8 current and 7 previous AAS users and 10 controls. Median (25th-75th percentiles) accumulated duration of AAS use was 174 (101–206) and 140 (24–260) weeks in current and former AAS users, respectively (P = 0.482). Geometric mean (95%CI) elapsed duration since AAS cessation was 4.0 (1.2; 12.7) years among former AAS users. Type II muscle fibers in former AAS users displayed higher myonuclei density and DNA-to-cytoplasm ratio than controls, corresponding to smaller myonuclei domains (P = 0.013). Longer accumulated AAS use (weeks, log2) was associated with smaller myonuclei domains in previous AAS users, beta-coefficient (95%CI), -94 (-169; -18), P = 0.024. Type I fibers in current AAS users exhibited a higher amount of satellite cells per myofiber (P = 0.031) compared to controls.

Conclusion: Muscle fibers in former AAS users demonstrated persistently higher myonuclei density and DNA-to-cytoplasm ratio four years after AAS cessation suggestive of enhanced retraining capacity.

 

[Thrawn]

Higher Myonuclei Density in Muscle Fibers Persists Among Former Users of Anabolic Androgenic Steroids

AbstractContext. No information exists on the long-lasting effects of supraphysiological anabolic androgenic steroids (AASs) usage on the myocellular properties

academic.oup.com

FULL TEXT: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1g_9UmIVkZFbXS9--9EstA8cZH5313anL/view?pli=1

Higher myonuclei density in muscle fibers persists among former users of anabolic androgenic steroids
The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, dgad432, https://doi.org/10.1210/clinem/dgad432
Published: 19 July 2023

Abstract​

Background and objective: No information exists on the long-lasting effects of supraphysiological anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS) usage on the myocellular properties of human skeletal muscle in previous AAS users. We hypothesized former AAS users would demonstrate smaller myonuclei domains (i.e., higher myonuclei density) compared to matched controls.

Methods: A community-based cross-sectional study in men aged 18-50 years engaged in recreational strength training. Muscle biopsies were obtained from the m. vastus lateralis. Immunofluorescence analyses were performed to quantify myonuclei density and myofiber size.

Results: Twenty-five males were included: 8 current and 7 previous AAS users and 10 controls. Median (25th-75th percentiles) accumulated duration of AAS use was 174 (101–206) and 140 (24–260) weeks in current and former AAS users, respectively (P = 0.482). Geometric mean (95%CI) elapsed duration since AAS cessation was 4.0 (1.2; 12.7) years among former AAS users. Type II muscle fibers in former AAS users displayed higher myonuclei density and DNA-to-cytoplasm ratio than controls, corresponding to smaller myonuclei domains (P = 0.013). Longer accumulated AAS use (weeks, log2) was associated with smaller myonuclei domains in previous AAS users, beta-coefficient (95%CI), -94 (-169; -18), P = 0.024. Type I fibers in current AAS users exhibited a higher amount of satellite cells per myofiber (P = 0.031) compared to controls.

Conclusion: Muscle fibers in former AAS users demonstrated persistently higher myonuclei density and DNA-to-cytoplasm ratio four years after AAS cessation suggestive of enhanced retraining capacity.

Is higher myonuclei density and DNA-to-cytoplasm ratio a good thing? I'm being lazy

 

[rawdeal]

. . . . Conclusion: Muscle fibers in former AAS users demonstrated persistently higher myonuclei density and DNA-to-cytoplasm ratio four years after AAS cessation suggestive of enhanced retraining capacity.

Don't know my way around "the literature" well enough to decide if this was a well designed study or not. Is studying only 25 subjects enough to publish conclusions?

I don't know, but I'd like to think we're on to something here about the "muscle memory" concept that gets occasional anecdotal support among those of us in "the community."

 

[MR. BMJ]

Is higher myonuclei density and DNA-to-cytoplasm ratio a good thing? I'm being lazy

Yea, i'm not sure on that at all. The higher density, or at least what they are leading into what they found, is that it should help more with muscle memory, especially it seems the longer you have used them. The whole "being off for 2y and you are like a natty again" claims sort of go out the window with these findings, as this showed it was still higher even after 4 years. I need to reread all this again though. I briefly read through the full text this past weekend. It did have limitations to it though, as they outlined. The only other study that showed similar results was done in mice years back.

My opinion: This may also give light to the guys that take a break with trt cycles in their off-season, or at least lower doses, for health purposes, versus guys who just blast all year long, yet still come in just as big the next year. They just aren't going to lose that much very quickly once the muscle has been built over a long period, plus whatever benefits this shows. I'm speculating here though, as you will have the guys who have to really blast to look big and argue that everybody has to do the same as them. So, i think the genetics that are involved are the biggest factor, but if this can somehow factor in as well, then it may play into these guys' advantage, whether they compete or just want to look bigger and better every year with better health.

 

[MR. BMJ]

Don't know my way around "the literature" well enough to decide if this was a well designed study or not. Is studying only 25 subjects enough to publish conclusions?

I don't know, but I'd like to think we're on to something here about the "muscle memory" concept that gets occasional anecdotal support among those of us in "the community."

Yea, they noted some of the limitations in the full text.

 

[Thrawn]

Don't know my way around "the literature" well enough to decide if this was a well designed study or not. Is studying only 25 subjects enough to publish conclusions?

I don't know, but I'd like to think we're on to something here about the "muscle memory" concept that gets occasional anecdotal support among those of us in "the community."

I guess my dumbass missed the very last sentence in the conclusion lol

 

[rawdeal]

Yea, they noted some of the limitations in the full text.

"touche," lol. I see they did acknowledge some, beginning on pg 15 and continuing just barely into pg 16, for those here who are interested but don't want to read all 25 pages. They even echoed the "muscle memory" thing I mentioned, except they said it more intelligenter than I did

 

[Thrawn]

I agree with both of y'all.

 

[Thrawn]

Reading up on your study specifically "Type I fibers in current AAS users exhibited a higher amount of satellite cells per myofiber (P = 0.031) compared to controls."
Came across this study and I know how we all feel about electrical stimulation and muscle growth but my interpretation or comparison would be think of it as a pre or post-workout supplement. https://journals.lww.com/cmj/Fulltext/2020/08200/Satellite_cell_proliferation_and_myofiber.9.aspx
Satellite sales increase, myonuclei per fibers increase but myonuclei cross section ratio no change why?

Results​

The percentages of Pax7-positive nuclei (10.81 ± 0.56%) and BrdU-positive nuclei (34.29 ± 3.87%) in stimulated muscles were significantly higher compared to those in non-stimulated muscles (2.58 ± 0.33% and 1.30 ± 0.09%, respectively, Bonferroni t = 15.91 and 18.14, P < 0.05). The numbers of myonuclei per fiber (2.19 ± 0.24) and myofiber CSA (1906.86 ± 116.51 μm2) were also increased in the stimulated muscles (Bonferroni t = 3.57 and 2.73, P < 0.05), and both were positively correlated with the Pax7-positive satellite cell content (R2 = 0.52 and 0.60, P < 0.01). There was no significant difference in the ratio of myofiber CSA/myonuclei number per fiber among the three groups.

Conclusions​

Our results indicate that satellite cell proliferation is promoted by electrical stimulation after nerve injury, which may be correlated with an increase in myonuclei number and myofiber CSA.

 

[Thrawn]

"touche," lol. I see they did acknowledge some, beginning on pg 15 and continuing just barely into pg 16, for those here who are interested but don't want to read all 25 pages. They even echoed the "muscle memory" thing I mentioned, except they said it more intelligenter than I did

How did you access pg 15?
Never mind I see the Google drive link

 

[Wilson6]

I have to go back and do some reading from the grad school days. There was a study published by Steve Alway one of my advisors in the 90's on women AAS users, I'm not sure if he looked at Sat Cells. They looked force production and fiber CSA. Will read this one and see if I still have Always.

 

[Wilson6]

Yea, i'm not sure on that at all. The higher density, or at least what they are leading into what they found, is that it should help more with muscle memory, especially it seems the longer you have used them. The whole "being off for 2y and you are like a natty again" claims sort of go out the window with these findings, as this showed it was still higher even after 4 years. I need to reread all this again though. I briefly read through the full text this past weekend. It did have limitations to it though, as they outlined. The only other study that showed similar results was done in mice years back.

My opinion: This may also give light to the guys that take a break with trt cycles in their off-season, or at least lower doses, for health purposes, versus guys who just blast all year long, yet still come in just as big the next year. They just aren't going to lose that much very quickly once the muscle has been built over a long period, plus whatever benefits this shows. I'm speculating here though, as you will have the guys who have to really blast to look big and argue that everybody has to do the same as them. So, i think the genetics that are involved are the biggest factor, but if this can somehow factor in as well, then it may play into these guys' advantage, whether they compete or just want to look bigger and better every year with better health.

A muscle fiber can only get so big with one myonuclei. In order to undergo further hypertrophy more myonuclei must be added and they come from the proliferation of satellite cells that get incorporated into existing fibers. If you irradiate a rat hindlimb, you prevent the SC from proliferating, subject the rat to any sort of hypertrophy model and the limb that was irradiated will not hypertrophy, the other will. I won't get into hyperplasia bc that's still a mystery if it really exists, but hypertrophy has a well established mechanism and involves a number of variables but SC are critical to the process. In the end, the more you have per unit muscle CSA (cross sectional area), the greater the hypertrophy potential. The East Germans knew this decades ago. They could juice a female track and field athlete long before they would be drug tested and with solid training and dietary intake, maintain a good portion of what was gained during her cycle and test clean. Bottom line, once juiced, always juiced and chromosomes aside this is why simply reducing T in a trans female does not equal the playing field against cis women, likewise once juiced, never a natty again, male or female in any playing field. The other question is which AAS does what. The androgen receptor is the primary mechanism but many of these drugs may have other non-genomic pathways to hypertrophy beyond the AR.