Does proteins with high BCAA carry enough amino acids

[woodswise]

There is a lot of mis-information and mis-understanding in this thread.

Proteins are made up of amino acids. BCAA's are branch chain amino acids. Our bodies produce many amino acids, but the "essential amino acids" are the ones our bodies cannot produce:

"The amino acids regarded as essential for humans are phenylalanine, valine, threonine, tryptophan, isoleucine, methionine, leucine, lysine, and histidine.[4] Additionally, cysteine (or sulphur-containing amino acids), tyrosine (or aromatic amino acids), and arginine are required by infants and growing children.[5][6] Essential amino acids are "essential" not because they are more important to life than the others, but because the body does not synthesize them. They must be present in the diet or they will not be present in the body. In addition, the amino acids arginine, cysteine, glycine, glutamine, histidine, proline, serine and tyrosine are considered conditionally essential, meaning they are not normally required in the diet, but must be supplied exogenously to specific populations that do not synthesize them in adequate amounts." from Wikipedia: http://https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_amino_acid

So if we supplement with BCAA's or amino acids, it is best to do so with those that are not produced by our bodies, and are hard to come by in the food supply.

Some foods have complete proteins in them for humans: meats; eggs; the combination of beans, rice and corn; and other diverse diets.

The main debate in this thread has been how much of a protein surplus we must have as bodybuilders, to reach optimal muscle building conditions. Adding BCAA's (at least those that are essential amino acids) will help us reach a protein surplus more quickly and easily, because our bodies can produce the other aminos we need to build muscle, from the non-protein foods we eat.

I do not know the answer as to where the ideal level of protein is in our diets, but I can see no harm in going to 1.5g to 2g protein per lb of lean bodymass. So long as our overall Kcal consumption is where it needs to be (surplus for bulking, defecit for dieting), what harm can there be to having some excess protein so our bodies don't have to work so hard to create muscle?

I know some in the medical community say too much protein is harmful to the kidneys. But the BB world's response has been that those medicos are confusing the disease symptoms (i.e. high creatine and BUN? levels in urine) for the cause.

So long as high protein levels don't cause me harm, I am going to go with the high protein diet.

 

[woodswise]

Calories mean more than all the BCAA protein BS.

Proven fact.

400g of protein is only 1600 calories.. U wont grow.

And im sure BCAA have some sort of Insignificant benefit to muscle tissue.. But calories is where it comes down to, and sodium .

If you're going to eat less protein, you really should supplement with BCAA's and essential amino acids, because those will fill any gaps you might have in the nutrition you consume.

 

[Mini Forklift Ⓥ]

WW, great contribution to this thread. Hmmmm maybe I should start taking them again ?! I know a lot of people that take them, I have tried them in the past and didn't really notice anything from them. So with that being said I would rather spend that money on a tub of protein of food! If you are using a good quality protein it should have a good range of BCAA's anyway ~ the one I use is a pea protein isolate which has all 9 Essential Amino Acids as well as 9 Non-Essential Amino Acids.

Just my 2c.

 

[Mini Forklift Ⓥ]

I know some in the medical community say too much protein is harmful to the kidneys. But the BB world's response has been that those medicos are confusing the disease symptoms (i.e. high creatine and BUN? levels in urine) for the cause.

I was listening to a podcast about creatine with a guy that's quite an authority on the supplement. He said everybody that he had seen that initially had high creatine/creatinine levels (which would be an alarm bell for kidney damage), he'd get them to hydrate well for a couple of weeks and stop taking creatine and when they were retested they were back to normal with zero damage or repercussions.

 

[Bluestorm]

All whey protein powders have BCAA's. It has to have it, otherwise it is not whey protein!
They can contain other amino acids and various other ingredients, but all whey protein has the essential BCAA's.

Unless you only want BCAA's, you are fine, if not better off, using whey protein.

 

[Mini Forklift Ⓥ]

... the one I use is a pea protein isolate which has all 9 Essential Amino Acids as well as 9 Non-Essential Amino Acids.

This is how mine looks, for the training I am doing right now I don't think it really warrants taking any additional BCAA's:

 

[marx]

One thing we are not touching on here is the delivery of aminos. Is your protein slow release, like meat or milk protein or quick like whey isolate? Isolate after training, other forms as my basis for muscle growth.

An ongoing stream of muscle component nutrients- protein which equals assimilable aminos- coursing through the bloodstream are the building blocks of muscle growth and repair. You need cals to support growth and training and all, but you need aminos as raw materials for the muscle itself.

 

[woodswise]

I was listening to a podcast about creatine with a guy that's quite an authority on the supplement. He said everybody that he had seen that initially had high creatine/creatinine levels (which would be an alarm bell for kidney damage), he'd get them to hydrate well for a couple of weeks and stop taking creatine and when they were retested they were back to normal with zero damage or repercussions.

Thanks for that, bud. But I am talking about creatine in the urine as an indicator of kidney damage. As I understand it, folks with kidney damage show high creatine levels in the urine, regardless whether they supplement with creatine. Thus when a bodybuilder who eats a lot of meat (rich in creatine) and/or supplement with creatine, has their bloodwork examined for kidney function, doctors frequently tell them their kidneys are showing signs of damage, without understanding the supplements and diet may be the source of the high levels instead of failing kidneys. The solution is exactly what you pointed out: stop supplementation, go to a more normal diet, and drink plenty of water. If your BUN and Creatine levels remain elevated then you probably do have kidney damage. If not, then you experienced a false alarm.

 

[woodswise]

One thing we are not touching on here is the delivery of aminos. Is your protein slow release, like meat or milk protein or quick like whey isolate? Isolate after training, other forms as my basis for muscle growth.

An ongoing stream of muscle component nutrients- protein which equals assimilable aminos- coursing through the bloodstream are the building blocks of muscle growth and repair. You need cals to support growth and training and all, but you need aminos as raw materials for the muscle itself.

Agreed, but which aminos should we supplement in the form of essentail amino acids, BCAA's, or other supplements versus which ones do we not need to supplement? If a person eats a healthy diet, rich in meat and veggies, isn't the supplementation redundant as to everything except essential aminos?

 

[Sfiiso]

our bodies respond differently and uniquely to nutrition and supplementation. From my personal experience I have learnt that I look and feel great if I take BCAA and glutamine especially pre and post workouts, and if I stop I notice my muscle looking flat and less appealing to sight. Some post workout drinks (e.g. Mutant Rehab) has adequate amount of these post-workout so you wouldn't necessarily add more if u use it. As others have suggested, nothing works well than whole food but you surely need BCAA and glutamine to maintain your muscle and even grow.

 

[jhotsauce7]

Hi all

I take protein at least 3 to 4 times a day to get enough protein for my body weight (263lbs)
.With that each drink has 14 grams of BCAA and 10 grams of glutamine.Should this cover the amino acids I need or do I need to suppliment amino acids too?
I admit I don't know alot about amino acids.

Unrelated to the BCAA question but make sure you drink a good amount of water with all those shakes or you could end up with a kidney stone