Creatine Supplementation on DNP

[PillarofBalance]

So I just got up to take a wizz for like the 8 millionth time today cause I'm pounding water. And I thought to myself: Self, if you're gonna be pissing so much, maybe you oughtta grab a jug of ye olde creatine monohydrate? But then I thought better of this...

Creatine is involved in the creation of ATP... DNP interrupts the process in which ATP is used for energy. So would taking creatine on DNP be either a waste, or totally counter productive... Or neither. Or maybe some combination?

 

[Halo]

I have no knowledge of how they interact, but I would really think it would be bad, but I'm just guessing.

 

[ajdos]

Hmmm interesting.
First thought that went through my head was 'cramping'.
All that water loss would you really be cramped up like a mofo?
Even with the inhibition of ATP I wonder what the cell voluumization would be worth on DNP, losing water at that rate, how much extra water would you have to take in to make the creatine even worth it?

 

[PillarofBalance]

Hmmm interesting.
First thought that went through my head was 'cramping'.
All that water loss would you really be cramped up like a mofo?
Even with the inhibition of ATP I wonder what the cell voluumization would be worth on DNP, losing water at that rate, how much extra water would you have to take in to make the creatine even worth it?

That is the other part I was pondering after I posted this... Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. I'll stay away for sure, but I'd love to hear either someones experience doing this, or an actual scientific explanation. I'll keep lookin though.

 

[SHINE]

Hmmm interesting.
First thought that went through my head was 'cramping'.
All that water loss would you really be cramped up like a mofo?
Even with the inhibition of ATP I wonder what the cell voluumization would be worth on DNP, losing water at that rate, how much extra water would you have to take in to make the creatine even worth it?

That's a very good question and very interesting post, now you know how (speaking to everyone that creatine can inhibit fat burning a bit) from reading a bit.

good topic POB.

you have me bugged about this one now! lolol.

 

[SHINE]

Just some interesting studies I have saved and were pointed out by the Late Nandi RIP

good stuff, not saying creatine will make you a fat bastad though! lol

Appl Physiol 2002 Aug 16; [epub ahead of print]

Creatine supplementation influences substrate utilization at rest.

Huso ME, Hampl JS, Johnston CS, Swan PD.

Department of Nutrition, Arizona State University, Mesa, AZ, USA.

The influence of creatine supplementation on substrate utilization during rest was investigated using a double-blind crossover design. Ten active men participated in 12 weeks of weight training and were given creatine and placebo (20 g/d for 4 d, then 2 g/d for 17 d) in two trials separated by a 4-week washout. Body composition, substrate utilization, and strength were assessed following week 2, 5, 9 and 12. Maximal isometric contraction (1-RM) leg press increased significantly (P < 0.05) following both treatments but 1-RM bench press was increased (33 kg +/- 8, P < 0.05) only following creatine. Total body mass increased (1.6 kg +/- 0.5, P < 0.05) after creatine but not after placebo. Significant (P < 0.05) increases in fat-free mass were found following both creatine (1.9 kg +/- 0.8) and placebo (2.2 kg +/- 0.7) supplementation. Fat mass did not change significantly with creatine, but decreased after the placebo trial (-2.4 kg +/- 0.8, P < 0.05). Carbohydrate oxidation was increased by creatine (8.9% +/- 4.0, P < 0.05), while there was a trend for increased RER after creatine supplementation (0.03 +/- 0.01, P = 0.07). Changes in substrate oxidation may influence the inhibition of fat mass loss associated with creatine following weight training.


Note: RER, or Respiratory Exchange Ratio, is a measure of how much fat vs. how much glucose is being used for fuel. The higher the RER, the more glucose/less fat there is being burned.

 

[SHINE]

And this one also pointed out by Nandi, (RIP)

I have no advice nor experience though using creatine with DNP although i've used DNP.
IMO I would't mix the two, if you do go sparingly I'd think with the creatine.

"Total body weight significantly increased (P < 0.05) in the HP group (P 0.85 +/- 2.2; HP 2.42 +/- 1.4 kg) while no differences were observed in the percentage of total body water. DEXA scanned body mass (P 0.77 +/- 1.8; HP 2.22 +/- 1.5 kg) and fat/bone-free mass (P 1.33 +/- 1.1; HP 2.43 +/- 1.4 kg) were significantly increased in the HP group."

Notice in the creatine group the increase in fat free mass is identical to the increase in total weight. No fat was lost, but 2 1/2 kg of muscle was added.

In the placebo group body weight increased by 0.85 kg, but fat free mass increased by 1.33 kg. They had to lose the difference, 0.48 kg, in fat.

Maybe it makes sense to cycle creatine, using it during a bulking phase but skipping it during cutting.

Med Sci Sports Exerc 1998 Jan;30(1):73-82

Effects of creatine supplementation on body composition, strength, and sprint performance.

Kreider RB, Ferreira M, Wilson M, Grindstaff P, Plisk S, Reinardy J, Cantler E, Almada AL.

Department of Human Movement Sciences & Education, The University of Memphis, TN 38152, USA. [email protected]

PURPOSE: To determine the effects of 28 d of creatine supplementation during training on body composition, strength, sprint performance, and hematological profiles. METHODS: In a double-blind and randomized manner, 25 NCAA division IA football players were matched-paired and assigned to supplement their diet for 28 d during resistance/agility training (8 h x wk[-1]) with a Phosphagen HP (Experimental and Applied Sciences, Golden, CO) placebo (P) containing 99 g x d(-1) of glucose, 3 g x d(-1) of taurine, 1.1 g x d(-1) of disodium phosphate, and 1.2 g x d(-1) of potassium phosphate (P) or Phosphagen HP containing the P with 15.75 g x d(-1) of HPCE pure creatine monohydrate (HP). Before and after supplementation, fasting blood samples were obtained; total body weight, total body water, and body composition were determined; subjects performed a maximal repetition test on the isotonic bench press, squat, and power clean; and subjects performed a cycle ergometer sprint test (12 x 6-s sprints with 30-s rest recovery). RESULTS: Hematological parameters remained within normal clinical limits for active individuals with no side effects reported.Total body weight significantly increased (P < 0.05) in the HP group (P 0.85 +/- 2.2; HP 2.42 +/- 1.4 kg) while no differences were observed in the percentage of total body water. DEXA scanned body mass (P 0.77 +/- 1.8; HP 2.22 +/- 1.5 kg) and fat/bone-free mass (P 1.33 +/- 1.1; HP 2.43 +/- 1.4 kg) were significantly increased in the HP group. Gains in bench press lifting volume (P -5 +/- 134; HP 225 +/- 246 kg), the sum of bench press, squat, and power clean lifting volume (P 1,105 +/- 429; HP 1,558 +/- 645 kg), and total work performed during the first five 6-s sprints was significantly greater in the HP group. CONCLUSION: The addition of creatine to the glucose/taurine/electrolyte supplement promoted greater gains in fat/bone-free mass, isotonic lifting volume, and sprint performance during intense resistance/agility training

 

[Lizard King]

Hmmm interesting.
First thought that went through my head was 'cramping'.
All that water loss would you really be cramped up like a mofo?
Even with the inhibition of ATP I wonder what the cell voluumization would be worth on DNP, losing water at that rate, how much extra water would you have to take in to make the creatine even worth it?

You retain a decent amount of water on DNP, even with all the trips to the bathroom. Most people get rid of this excess water around a week after they stop they cycle.
No idea about the creatine, never took it during a cycle, sorry.

 

[Thinkbig]

Ive run Creatine with DNP, about 4 times, if I recall. Its not really able to make any difference at all. The DNP is derailing your ATP regeneration efficiency to such a degree that your not able to lift really heavy (At all) once you get to around 400mg for a few days.

Supplemental creating therefore is like a drop in a well, and not able to overcome or even really offer anything to overcome the DNP's ability to disrupt the efficiency of ATP stores.

I found that theres no measurable difference for me in strength, possibly at endurance, but its hard to say. Pyruvate if the oral version was very efficacious would be great, but it just doesn't work that well.

it can't hurt anything, but its not going to do much. If anything. Wait until you've been on 400mg or more for about 4 days, you'll see what i'm talking about.

 

[SHINE]

Ive run Creatine with DNP, about 4 times, if I recall. Its not really able to make any difference at all. The DNP is derailing your ATP regeneration efficiency to such a degree that your not able to lift really heavy (At all) once you get to around 400mg for a few days.

Supplemental creating therefore is like a drop in a well, and not able to overcome or even really offer anything to overcome the DNP's ability to disrupt the efficiency of ATP stores.

I found that theres no measurable difference for me in strength, possibly at endurance, but its hard to say. Pyruvate if the oral version was very efficacious would be great, but it just doesn't work that well.

it can't hurt anything, but its not going to do much. If anything. Wait until you've been on 400mg or more for about 4 days, you'll see what i'm talking about.

Good to know, never seen shit about the use of creatine with dnp til now.

 

[Thinkbig]

Ive run DNP, with alot of things, With Aspirin and/or White Willow Bark, Y.A.C.E.S. Sesamin, other such shit.

None of its really needed. DNP is going to Uncouple Oxidative Phosphorylation, and make you generate heat and regardless of macronutrient breakdown, its pretty much no more or less effective.

Thusly things like Glut-4 upregulators, other such GDA's and whatnot, while possibly helping in other such areas, really do nothing to help or hurt DNP, its working if its real, you can eat pure fat or pure carbs or isocaloric and given the same caloric content, its going to work in a dose /bodyweight dependant manner and the research has painstakenly shown this.

 

[PillarofBalance]

So safe to basically just call it a waste... Kinda what I suspected. Thanks TB.