Can women “ baby dose” Decca?

[Smitty217]

Can a woman safely baby dose Decca (ND) along with their normal TC weekly injections. My wife is looking to add for about 8-10 weeks. I’ve read a lot use NPP instead but could ND be safely used to enhance at the baby dose to get your feet in the water so to speak? All input is greatly appreciated!


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[Smitty217]

Baby dose being 5-6 mg twice weekly ND along with 10 mg 2X weekly of TC?


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[Littleguy]

I would need to ask why to give you a proper answer.
What is the endgame result she is looking for?

 

[Smitty217]

I would need to ask why to give you a proper answer.
What is the endgame result she is looking for?

Gain muscle (put on some size). She’s been weightlifting regularly since her twenties . Currently 43 and doing TC 20 mg weekly broken into two injections. Not competitive bodybuilder but just wanting to look good put on size. Testosterone has helped a great deal and she’s been on it for about a year and a half. Looking to do 8 to 10 week cycle to possibly gain a little more size. Hope that makes sense


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[BovaJP]

Hey there, can you define "safely baby dose"? LOL. Only ask this because as you know, safety may be a concern of yours. LOL. If safety is the concern, start out with low dose and if any concerns then stop.
I'm sure there is a sweet spot somewhere there for her.

 

[Smitty217]

Hey there, can you define "safely baby dose"? LOL. Only ask this because as you know, safety may be a concern of yours. LOL. If safety is the concern, start out with low dose and if any concerns then stop.
I'm sure there is a sweet spot somewhere there for her.

Hey Bova! LOL, I get it. My only concern is the longer ester if things go south….thoughts? Can get NPP but it’s just a haste. Got a good amount of Decca laying around so that’s the thought…,


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[Wilson6]

Define "south". I know two that run it year around with their TC HRT, 2:1 ratio TC/ND. Actually less problematic with hair.

 

[Smitty217]

Thank you


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[Wilson6]

Gave this one more thought this morning. Couple of different ideas and thoughts. Sub ND for the TC, same dose for about 12 weeks and get a sense of what it does (is it really more anabolic?). The more I dig into the old lit the more I think the anabolic (muscle building differences) between compounds really isn't that much different, it's what else the compound does or does not do vs TC that makes the difference. Nandrolone is more androgenic than testosterone, but the 5AR form DHN is much weaker than DHT. One of my friends that is a retired strong woman competitor, was one of the tops in the business had issues with TC for HRT and hair loss, switched to ND 80 mg/wk and the hair loss stopped. Liked the way she felt but it was jacking her Hb and BP up more than T. One female at the gym runs 40 TC/20 ND 2 x/wk as her base. Her labs look like she is taking nothing, no effect on LFTs or HDL/LDL. Hb up but nothing crazy, donates blood couple times a year. Half lives between ND and TC are similar, its the metabolites of ND that hang around. The other option is just bump the TC to 15 mg 2x/wk and leave it. Either way, the effects may not even be noticeable in 8 - 10 weeks, too low a dose for too short a period of time. That's my guess, but you never know.

 

[Smitty217]

Wilson6,
Thanks for the response! It's greatly appreciated. So OUR concerns would be bad virilization begins to occur and she stops but because of the amount of time it stays in the system the effects could hang on for some time. That is the worst case scenario. Hair growth is one thing but she doesn't want to grow a beard either.... Will the metabolites cause the bad sides to continue? Or will they progression once the half lives of the drug have passed?? She has some knee issues and hoped the combination with ND would assist with the issue possibly as well.

Also you have it wrong. ND is LESS androgenic than testoserone. ND is much less androgenic....and more anabolic.

Nandrolone (NPP, Deca-Durabolin): Anabolic; 125 – Androgenic; 37
Testosterone: Anabolic; 100 – Androgenic; 100

 

[Smitty217]

Injectable Compounds​

• Boldenone (Equipoise / EQ): Anabolic; 100 – Androgenic; 50
• Clostebol (Megagrisevit-Mono): Anabolic; 46 – Androgenic; 25
• DiHydroTestosterone (DHT, Andractim): Anabolic; 60-220 – Androgenic; 30-260
• Drostanolone (Masteron): Anabolic; 62-130 – Androgenic; 25-40
• Formebolone (Esiclene): no data available
• Methenolone (Primobolan): Anabolic; 88 – Androgenic; 44-57
• MethylNorTestosterone (MENT, Trestolone): Anabolic; 2,300 – Androgenic; 650
• Nandrolone (NPP, Deca-Durabolin): Anabolic; 125 – Androgenic; 37
• Oxabolone (Steranabol Ritardo): Anabolic; 50-90 – Androgenic; 20-60
• Stanozolol (Injectable Winstrol): Anabolic; 320 – Androgenic; 30
• Stenbolone (Anatrofin): Anabolic; 267-332 – Androgenic; 107-144
• Testosterone: Anabolic; 100 – Androgenic; 100
• Trenbolone (Parabolan): Anabolic; 500 – Androgenic; 500

Oral Compounds​

• 1-Testosterone: Anabolic; 200 – Androgenic; 100
• 4-HydroxyTestosterone: Anabolic; 65 – Androgenic; 25
• 7-KetoDHEA: no data available, classified as a Metabolic Prohormone.
• Androsta-1,4,6-triene-3,17-dione (ATD, Arimistane): no data available, Boldenone Metabolite, classified as a Suicide Aromatase Inhibitor.
• Bolasterone (Myagen): Anabolic; 575 – Androgenic; 300
• ChloroDehydroMethylTestosterone (CDMT, Turinabol): Anabolic; 100+ – Androgenic; None
• Danazol (Danocrine): Anabolic; 125 – Androgenic; 37
• DeHydroEpiAndrosterone (DHEA): no data available, classified as a Neuro-Steroid.
• DiMethylTrienolone (DMT): Anabolic; 10,000+ – Androgenic; 10,000+
• DesoxyMethylTestosterone (DMT, Madol): Anabolic; 1,200 – Androgenic; 187
• Havoc: Anabolic; 1200 – Androgenic; 91
• EthylEstrenol (Orabolin): Anabolic; 00-400 – Androgenic; 20-400
• ErgoMax LMG Phera-Plex: Anabolic; 1,200 – Androgenic; 187
• Exemestane (Aromasin): no data available, classified as a Suicide Aromatase Inhibitor.
• FluoxyMesterone (Halotestin): Anabolic; 1,900 – Androgenic; 850
• Furazabol (Miotolan): Anabolic; 270-330 – Androgenic; 73-94
• Halodrol: Anabolic; 100 – Androgenic; 0
• Mestanolone: Anabolic; 107 – Androgenic; 78-254
• Mesterolone (Proviron): Anabolic; 100-150 – Androgenic; 30-40
• Methyl-1-Testosterone (M1T): Anabolic; 910-1,600 – Androgenic; 100-220
• MethylAndrostenediol (Methandriol): Anabolic; 20-60 – Androgenic; 30-60
• MethylDienolone: Anabolic; 1,000 – Androgenic; 200-300
• MethylDrostanolone (Superdrol): Anabolic; 400 – Androgenic; 20
• MethylHydroxyNandrolone (MHN): Anabolic; 1304 – Androgenic; 281
• MethylTestosterone: Anabolic; 115-150 – Androgenic; 94-130
• MethylTrienolone (Metribolone): Anabolic; 12,000-30,000 – Androgenic; 6,000-7,000
• Metandienone / MethanDrostenolone (Dianabol): Anabolic; 90-210 – Androgenic; 40-60
• Mibolerone (Cheque Drops): Anabolic; 4,100 – Androgenic; 1,800
• NorBolethone (Genabol): Anabolic; 350 – Androgenic; 17
• NorEthandrolone (Nilevar): Anabolic; 100-200 – Androgenic; 22-55
• NorMethandrolone (Orgasteron): Anabolic; 110-125 – Androgenic; 325-580
• Oxandrolone (Anavar): Anabolic; 322-630 – Androgenic; 24
• Oxymesterone (Oranabol): Anabolic; 330 – Androgenic; 50
• Oxymetholone (Anadrol): Anabolic; 320 – Androgenic; 45
• Pregnenolone: no data available, classified as a Neuro-Steroid.
• Pro-Stanazolol: Anabolic; 80 – Androgenic; 7
• Spironolactone (Aldactone): no data available, classified as an Anti-Androgen.
• Stanozolol (Oral Winstrol): Anabolic; 320 – Androgenic; 30
• TetraHydroGestrinone (THG, The Clear): no data available
• Thiomesterone (Protabol): Anabolic; 456 – Androgenic; 61
• Quinbolone (Anabolicum Vister): Anabolic; 100 – Androgenic; 50

 

[Wilson6]

I knew I'd stir the pot on this one. These ratios come from various assays in vitro and animal work, rats (prostates and LA), the human data is scant and you really have to dig for anything on women. Mostly out of the 60's when AAS were used for BCa or the HIV data. If you use DHT as the standard of 100% binding with the human androgen receptor, 19-nor binds at 75% and testosterone at 31%. There was a study in German looking at the virilizing sides in women given both nandrolone and masteron, the virilizing side were worse in the nandrolone group. Friedl et al did a study years ago comparing TC and ND at 300 mg/wk in guys 6 weeks. No difference between the two in body comp and the TC group had greater increases in strength (no surprise). I've seen mixed data between T and ND in HIV with ND being a little more anabolic (muscle building), animal work with the LA again shows modest increases in the anabolic effects of ND over T but not at higher doses. A couple of competitors at the gym during off season HRT type dosing tried switching out 1/2 of their T with Primo for a few weeks. The only difference they noticed was a slight decrease in strength and less drive to train (their primo was real and dosed equally). This is why I really think, for anyone trying to sort this out for themselves, get yourself to a steady state off season, then simply switch out 50% of T with something else (mast, primo, deca, OX) run it for at least 4 weeks probably best to 12 weeks, keep everything else the same and journal everything, then you will know, in your body exactly what to expect (and include labs). Women seem to be so concerned with using ND, if it were truly 1/3 as androgenic as T, one would think that taking 25 - 50 a week would be equil to 8 - 16 mg of TC that should (based on the study in post-meno women have little if any virilizing sides over a 20 week period). We cite ratios from various authors but is that the way it really works in humans? If you sub'd out 100 mg/wk of T with 100 mg/wk of OX, would you really add 3.2 - 6.3 times more muscle based on the ratios or as much muscle as you would add with 320 - 630 mg/wk of TC? Getting back to nandrolone, what makes it less androgenic when it has stronger binding affinity for the androgen receptor? It is the C-5 alpha reduction in T that makes DHT. N 5 alpha reduces to DHN that has much lower affinity for the AR. In N removing the C-19 methyl group reduces the rate of aromatization, so less E2 conversion. Lastly, that is what make N bind with the P receptor. If you run a short chain ester, yes it clears faster but you also have higher blood conc after the inj along with the metabolites. Relative to N, I don't know how active the metabolites are, I'm sure this has been studied somewhere, however N can be detected for a long time after use and its because of the metabolites. Its also thought that is why it take so long to bounce back from a cycle of Deca. Back to the original question, if we take the ratios and Smitty's wife switches all of her TC with the same dose of ND or NPP, she should add more muscle and have less androgenic sides over time but not in 8 - 12 weeks. If you take the study by Frisoli et al, women treated with ND 50 mg every 3 weeks (avg 16 mg/wk), they added over 2 years about 3 kg of muscle, virilizing sides were minimal. I would have liked to see what 16 per week would have done compared to 50 every 3.