Body Fat: Best Management Plan

[ajdos]

As a larger athlete I agree with RR, sprints and things that I have to have high bursts of energy are just too hard on my joints and ligaments.
I do a medium intensity cardio, I walk my dog up a long ass steep ass street in my neighborhood, may sound like nothing but if I showed it to you then you may understand, I do it for a total of 45 min about 25 up and 20 down, it actually goes up, then down then up then down one last time so it has an interval effect so to speak.
I do it fasted some days, and others I take BCAA's and glutamine.
I know a lot of people have jumped on the NON fasted cardio, but I have news for alot of people, its not like a protein shake really helps keep you from losing all that much muscle.
If your on AAS are 'anti catabolic' alot of this so called muscle catabolism just doesnt happen like people think, its like Skip LaCour said one time 'its not like Pac Man running around eating up your muscles'
And truth be told you can lose muscle with higher blood sugar and amino acid profile...
I have done it this way for years, and I stay lean, and I dont have drugs to help me with that anymore, I use more dietary approach, such as altering the intakes and ratios of macros every so often, I even crapload often times.
I stay big, and lean. Now Im no damned expert but as much as cardio helps, diet is the big element you need to pay attention too.
Good thread.

 

[GarnetandGold]

I Sexercise as often as I can........includes whacking too!!!!

 

[PillarofBalance]

As a larger athlete I agree with RR, sprints and things that I have to have high bursts of energy are just too hard on my joints and ligaments.
I do a medium intensity cardio, I walk my dog up a long ass steep ass street in my neighborhood, may sound like nothing but if I showed it to you then you may understand, I do it for a total of 45 min about 25 up and 20 down, it actually goes up, then down then up then down one last time so it has an interval effect so to speak.
I do it fasted some days, and others I take BCAA's and glutamine.
I know a lot of people have jumped on the NON fasted cardio, but I have news for alot of people, its not like a protein shake really helps keep you from losing all that much muscle.
If your on AAS are 'anti catabolic' alot of this so called muscle catabolism just doesnt happen like people think, its like Skip LaCour said one time 'its not like Pac Man running around eating up your muscles'
And truth be told you can lose muscle with higher blood sugar and amino acid profile...
I have done it this way for years, and I stay lean, and I dont have drugs to help me with that anymore, I use more dietary approach, such as altering the intakes and ratios of macros every so often, I even crapload often times.
I stay big, and lean. Now Im no damned expert but as much as cardio helps, diet is the big element you need to pay attention too.
Good thread.

You're the hardest working guy in bodybuilding Aj, and after years of working like you have I can completely understand that... I wonder though for the beginner, or intermediate bodybuilder, if we did HIIT instead of long, low and slow cardio would it help to spare our joints of the pains you experience today? I'm not sure, and I don't think anyone can say for certain.

Diet is very important that for sure, I just wouldn't dare covering diet in this write-up as that would go on and on and on lol... I would also add that you have a significant amount of muscle mass that helps to KEEP you lean.

Anyway, I'm not the guy that tries to ram "my way" down anyones throats, especially not a guy with like 100lbs more lean mass than I've got Whatever is working for the individual - like Ronnie Coleman says "if you done what you always did, you gonna get what you always got." Ok I'm rambling now... I'm pretty sure thats the E/C and cup of coffee I'm having right now...

 

[ajdos]

You're the hardest working guy in bodybuilding Aj, and after years of working like you have I can completely understand that... I wonder though for the beginner, or intermediate bodybuilder, if we did HIIT instead of long, low and slow cardio would it help to spare our joints of the pains you experience today? I'm not sure, and I don't think anyone can say for certain.

Diet is very important that for sure, I just wouldn't dare covering diet in this write-up as that would go on and on and on lol... I would also add that you have a significant amount of muscle mass that helps to KEEP you lean.

Anyway, I'm not the guy that tries to ram "my way" down anyones throats, especially not a guy with like 100lbs more lean mass than I've got Whatever is working for the individual - like Ronnie Coleman says "if you done what you always did, you gonna get what you always got." Ok I'm rambling now... I'm pretty sure thats the E/C and cup of coffee I'm having right now...

I often times have thought if I could go back and do it that way, would it have made a bigger impact and spared me some pain?
Hard to say, 21 years of doing it one way, my angle has been if it aint broke dont fix it.
But I see merits in any program as this game has no one size that fits all.

 

[dangerouscurves]

If I managed to stay on schedule for the day I do fasted , moderate intensity cardio in the A.M with my GH, and sometimes some ECA(so I can stay awake)

then after lifting I add some 2:1 (tabata)sprints (though I use the treadmill 1. out of convenience, and 2. for the extra joint relief for previos ankle injuries) but I really like to do 40sec sprints, 20sec moderate.

I have found that just incorporating sprints is enough to keep me where I am, and lose slowly but not enough to lose without a lot more restriction in the diet, and the split cardio works wonders for me where I am at now, and where I am trying to get. and the fasted cardio is when I really see the changes coming in, but this could be from mood being up from post workout and being good about diet as I dont want to waste the work I did.

 

[NutNut]

As a larger athlete I agree with RR, sprints and things that I have to have high bursts of energy are just too hard on my joints and ligaments.
I do a medium intensity cardio, I walk my dog up a long ass steep ass street in my neighborhood, may sound like nothing but if I showed it to you then you may understand, I do it for a total of 45 min about 25 up and 20 down, it actually goes up, then down then up then down one last time so it has an interval effect so to speak.
I do it fasted some days, and others I take BCAA's and glutamine.
I know a lot of people have jumped on the NON fasted cardio, but I have news for alot of people, its not like a protein shake really helps keep you from losing all that much muscle.
If your on AAS are 'anti catabolic' alot of this so called muscle catabolism just doesnt happen like people think, its like Skip LaCour said one time 'its not like Pac Man running around eating up your muscles'
And truth be told you can lose muscle with higher blood sugar and amino acid profile...
I have done it this way for years, and I stay lean, and I dont have drugs to help me with that anymore, I use more dietary approach, such as altering the intakes and ratios of macros every so often, I even crapload often times.
I stay big, and lean. Now Im no damned expert but as much as cardio helps, diet is the big element you need to pay attention too.
Good thread.

It's more about fat oxidization and the ability to work as hard as possible than it is fear of catabolism but being in an anti-catabolic state as often as possible isn't a bad idea. No matter what you do the body does not use just one form of fuel for energy but providing it with the easiest form to metabolize during intense activity is probably smart. A protein shake isn't the easiest form of fuel by any means so you are right there, a protein shake isn't doing much to prevent catabolism. If fasted cardio does not show an increase in fat oxidization why do it? It may work but it won't work better than the alternative when doing any decent level of intensity.

I agree that proper diet is key, without it training produces poor results where as many people make great fat losses with very little cardio. I still like cardio for the heart health factor no matter what though.

 

[PillarofBalance]

It's more about fat oxidization and the ability to work as hard as possible than it is fear of catabolism but being in an anti-catabolic state as often as possible isn't a bad idea. No matter what you do the body does not use just one form of fuel for energy but providing it with the easiest form to metabolize during intense activity is probably smart. A protein shake isn't the easiest form of fuel by any means so you are right there, a protein shake isn't doing much to prevent catabolism. If fasted cardio does not show an increase in fat oxidization why do it? It may work but it won't work better than the alternative when doing any decent level of intensity.

I agree that proper diet is key, without it training produces poor results where as many people make great fat losses with very little cardio. I still like cardio for the heart health factor no matter what though.

I'm one of the unlucky bastards that doesn't really apply to. It seems that if I cut my cals low enough to drop fat, I drop a ton of muscle as well. If I keep my cals slightly higher, and then do cardio, I get a better muscle sparing thing going on. I'm an endomorph for sure - or "fat fuck" as you nutritionist types call them I know that you shouldn't rely on drugs for reaching your goals, just for reaching them faster... which I why my next cycle is gonna be one where I come out the other side ripped to shreds... I really think I need the gear to hold the muscle while cutting the fat at a reasonable pace.

 

[NutNut]

Do you have much experience carb cycling PoB? I always bring my competitive guys close to competition using a mix of medium and low carb days with a high day thrown in on the end, the closer we get the more those medium days start looking like low days and that high day goes away in the last week or 2 (along with some electrolyte manipulation and playing with fat ratios). Carbs come back in a large way before pre-judging so they don't look flat though. Each person is a little different but I'm a big believer in carb cycling.

 

[PillarofBalance]

Do you have much experience carb cycling PoB? I always bring my competitive guys close to competition using a mix of medium and low carb days with a high day thrown in on the end, the closer we get the more those medium days start looking like low days and that high day goes away in the last week or 2 (along with some electrolyte manipulation and playing with fat ratios). Carbs come back in a large way before pre-judging so they don't look flat though. Each person is a little different but I'm a big believer in carb cycling.

I'm doing that currently and not having much success... Likely because my cals are too high. I may have mis-calculated my BF with the cheap ass calipers I have. Gonna google and see if I can find a local university that'll do the tank or something. Gotta get the calories right.

 

[NutNut]

If you can't find a hydro tank look for a bodpod they are becoming more common.

 

[ajdos]

It's more about fat oxidization and the ability to work as hard as possible than it is fear of catabolism but being in an anti-catabolic state as often as possible isn't a bad idea. No matter what you do the body does not use just one form of fuel for energy but providing it with the easiest form to metabolize during intense activity is probably smart. A protein shake isn't the easiest form of fuel by any means so you are right there, a protein shake isn't doing much to prevent catabolism. If fasted cardio does not show an increase in fat oxidization why do it? It may work but it won't work better than the alternative when doing any decent level of intensity.

I agree that proper diet is key, without it training produces poor results where as many people make great fat losses with very little cardio. I still like cardio for the heart health factor no matter what though.

The flip side of that is if you are someone like myself that usually hovers around 255-260 when lean, pounding the crap outta yourself with intense cardio, tears up your legs, as I have found intense cardio to be a much more effective fat burner, but also kills muscle, especially in the leg departments, as a former competitor I learned the hard way to cycle my cardio intensities as much like cycling carbs.
Pouding the legs with heavy leg work twice a week (once with quads, another with hams and calves) then doing 2 a days with cardio come 4 weeks out isnt all that user friendly on the lower body, and flattens it out like no ones business.
Fasted cardio became much more of a necessity than it was something I deemed a better fat burner, however I always did find it highly effective.

Initially my form of cardio was running, it was intense and a great fat burner, but HIGHLY catabolic.
At the end of the day, its like all training and nutrition, there is no blueprint anyone can ever espouse that will be the sure thing, you have to try them out, and find what works, at shows when I spoke to my fellow competitors I found that many of us did things in a similar fashion, and at the same time completely different from one another, guys tried new things, found better ways, and also disasters along the way...more ways than one to skin the proverbial cat.

 

[NutNut]

I agree that nobody is the same, you hover around 255-260 lean I hover around 245-250 lean so I can say we are in a similar department in that respect. I never had much issue with catabolism in the leg department using a recumbent bike or using variations of my farmboy protocol but I can't say for sure everyone will have the same results as me either. Closer to comp I tend to get guys and gals doing more moderate work, sometimes as much as 2x a day depending on condition and metabolism. This is usually not fasted though as I've seen no real world benefit over fed, it seems to just be one of those broscience things that has been passed along, does it work sure, but I can't see how it would work better than fed, nor have I seen it work better than fed in real world situations. To each their own by all means I just like to hear the reasoning behind what others are doing. Keep in mind lifting volume changes with the cardio as well. HIIT is anti-catabolic compared to longer steady state work but it needs a larger recovery period which we don't really have when we get close to contest.